Like you, I was seriously curious about paladin tanking and I decided to test it on the retro wow servers. I found the lack of taunt to be the least problematic of all. Same goes for threat, at least initially. You will build initial threat quite fast, perhaps even faster than warriors and druids. You will also soon discover you are the king of aoe tanking. However, that's where the pros end in my experience. Like many have already pointed out, mana is a huge problem unless you sacrifice gear with defensive stats for int/mp5 gear. In a way you have to do that after all to utilize your redoubt talent. I'd say if you are serious about it, you will do great for dungeons (especially for strat and scholo) and you will be decent offtank for raids, especially on trash and bosses with aoe adds.
Very reasonable take on the conversation. You have potential to generate some AoE threat. If you want to tank dungeons, you can make this work. Mana will always be an issue. You could potentially aspire to be an offtank when you reach the real content.
Telling that you are going to be Oom after 3 minutes is entirely wrong.
Here is Video of me doing constant max threats as full def gear on Target Dummy for 7 minutes and still not getting Oom. Including the fact that there was no Druids for Innervates or Priest for Power infusion in order to get more Mana.
Yea, 636.7 TPS... All you will need is the thunderfury he is wielding in the video (which a guild wont be giving to the prot pally) the collection of gear he has, which isnt reasonable to get before you tank 5 mans, and that loooooong laundry list of expensive consumes you see in the top right corner of his screen. Is that a supreme power flask? Hahaha.
No one is saying this is not possible. Its just not reasonable. I look forward to following up with a lot of you guys as we progress through Classic. I'm interested in seeing this guy tank some real content with a real guild. I'm also interested in seeing their progression.
Telling that you are going to be Oom after 3 minutes is entirely wrong.
Here is Video of me doing constant max threats as full def gear on Target Dummy for 7 minutes and still not getting Oom. Including the fact that there was no Druids for Innervates or Priest for Power infusion in order to get more Mana.
Yea, 636.7 TPS... All you will need is the thunderfury he is wielding in the video (which a guild wont be giving to the prot pally) the collection of gear he has, which isnt reasonable to get before you tank 5 mans, and that loooooong laundry list of expensive consumes you see in the top right corner of his screen. Is that a supreme power flask? Hahaha.
No one is saying this is not possible. Its just not reasonable. I look forward to following up with a lot of you guys as we progress through Classic. I'm interested in seeing this guy tank some real content with a real guild. I'm also interested in seeing their progression.
646.7 TPS = 1k DPS handling and that's without :
1- Holy Shield
2- Retribution Aura
3- Blessing of Sanctuary
4- Sanctity Aura
5- All 3 Judgements at once
6- Exorcism
7- Parry Haste
8- Innervates
9- Power Infusion
10- Holy Mightstone
11- Holy Water
12- Crit Buff by group.
13- World Buffs (all of them)
14- Hunter Pet Buff
15- Blessing of Might
16- Blessing of King
17- Warrior Shouts
Did you know that with all of these (perhaps i missed some) , you can certainly improve threat twice higher than this threat on sitting target?!
killerduki show me a video of you as a fresh 60 (not in raid gear) going into 5 man content, with a group of people you don't know, with no VOIP comms. Show me how well this spec performs on a realistic playing field doing content that you can still acquire gear from when 5 mans are actually relevant. This is the reality that most players will be facing. Then compare that performance to a druid or warrior of equal gear and lets compare the viability of the class. Furthermore, lets see you tank in a progressing raid on the first night of MC... the first night of BWL... etc etc etc.
@killerduki show me a video of you as a fresh 60 (not in raid gear) going into 5 man content, with a group of people you don't know, with no VOIP comms. Show me how well this spec performs on a realistic playing field doing content that you can still acquire gear from when 5 mans are actually relevant. This is the reality that most players will be facing. Then compare that performance to a druid or warrior of equal gear and lets compare the viability of the class. Furthermore, lets see you tank in a progressing raid on the first night of MC... the first night of BWL... etc etc etc.
On the first night of MC... jeezes. What is that like 0.00001% of the pop? not very realistic. But I agree with the fresh 60 part, it requires a little build up but not to the extent that people complain about. I'd say 1 week after 60 for gearing. Literally, by the time 40 people are level 60 you should be in pre-raid BIS.
On the first night of MC... jeezes. What is that like 0.00001% of the pop? not very realistic. But I agree with the fresh 60 part, it requires a little build up but not to the extent that people complain about. I'd say 1 week after 60 for gearing. Literally, by the time 40 people are level 60 you should be in pre-raid BIS.
Yes. On the first night that YOUR guild does MC. I want to see these specs being used during progression. I'm not interested in raid geared players going back to 5 man content and drinking after every pull WHILE they are being supported by other raid geared players. I am not interested in a paladin with thunderfury hitting a target dummy with flasks on. I want to see their performance while progressing, when it matters. I want to see a prot pally as a fresh 60, with other fresh 60s doing 5 man content. I then want to compare their efficiency and performance against other fresh tanks, both feral and warrior.
The argument shouldn't be whether something can be done. The argument is whether something is worth doing. I am genuinely curious to know if prot paladin is worth doing. I have not played a prot paladin and I have not seen one successfully played in these circumstances. I have watched dozens fail horribly. I maintain that this playstyle will not suit the majority of the userbase. I am curious if outliers who are playing the spec perfectly can even make playing a prot pally valuable in contrast to the other two tanks that are available. I am less interested in seeing footage from private, but I really hope that you guys will keep us updated during Classic. Show us some fresh 60 dungeon runs. Show us your guilds first night in MC. I wont even bully you and request raiding footage past MC... Show me those two aspects of tanking successfully, without drinking after every pull, without being the single slowest party member that is trashing efficiency, without wiping due to your lack of taunt, and I will be convinced.
That's a rather hard request.
You see, you most likely won't find such a video from retail, because paladin tanks as main tanks were impossible prior to patch 1.9 revamp. The reason is Seal of Fury existed and sucked. So the only available footage from retail would be from between 1.9 and 1.12, when all the pallies already had raid gear.
Similarly, you won't find a sufficient video from private servers, because most private servers introduced their own bugs that affect paladin tanking. Most common being wrong spell damage coefficients, judgement stacking, or some other funky bugs.
That's a rather hard request.
You see, you most likely won't find such a video from retail, because paladin tanks as main tanks were impossible prior to patch 1.9 revamp. The reason is Seal of Fury existed and sucked. So the only available footage from retail would be from between 1.9 and 1.12, when all the pallies already had raid gear.
Similarly, you won't find a sufficient video from private servers, because most private servers introduced their own bugs that affect paladin tanking. Most common being wrong spell damage coefficients, judgement stacking, or some other funky bugs.
Hence why I am asking for them to stay in touch during Classic. Read the post in full. The validity of these meme specs will be interesting to track throughout the course of Classic.
I want to see a prot pally as a fresh 60, with other fresh 60s doing 5 man content. I then want to compare their efficiency and performance against other fresh tanks, both feral and warrior.
Wait... I am lost. Did anyone ever say paladin are better than ferals/warriors? Naturally, they are behind but to flat out label them as not a raid tank is wrong.
The argument shouldn't be whether something can be done. The argument is whether something is worth doing. I am genuinely curious to know if prot paladin is worth doing. I have not played a prot paladin and I have not seen one successfully played in these circumstances. I have watched dozens fail horribly. I maintain that this playstyle will not suit the majority of the userbase. I am curious if outliers who are playing the spec perfectly can even make playing a prot pally valuable in contrast to the other two tanks that are available.
IMO its harder but more rewarding since its wasn't entirely designed to be played that way +10 years ago. You could blaze through the content and be done with it then go warrior or you could challenge yourself and inject some life into an old game then go paladin the same goes for dps.
P.S. There are Paladin raid tank videos they just do a poor job with promoting their stuff lol :P
Can you guys settle on the fact that you: agree to disagree?!
Each to his own.
I'm still shock horror by the walls of text that just hit me.
Wait... I am lost. Did anyone ever say paladin are better than ferals/warriors?
Alright good. So we can pretty much agree that prot pallys are trash and are viable in the same way that a mage can be viable for tanking or a rogue can be viable for tanking. It CAN be done but it is not worth doing. In almost all cases this is a spec that is completely useless for the majority of the playerbase and something that should be used later on to add flavor to your own experience. Is it fair to agree that this spec is meme in every sense of the word?
Remember. We are in a post where OP is posing THIS question...
It is normally stated that Paladins can't tank and Warriors are king, but I am was curious if they can legitimately not tank and holds agro or if they are just less optimal than a warrior?
Yes. They are less optimal than a warrior. Not, "can it be done". OP wants to know if it SHOULD be done... The argument of viable VS optimal has almost devolved into the point where viable has been redefined. Now, regardless of the efficiency or performance of ANY spec, they are labeled as viable, because hell, it can be done so its viable right? I think this detracts from a lot of other sub optimal specs that can actually be functional in many regards. Rogue tank? Viable. Boomkin in raids? Viable. Ele shaman in raids? Viable. Rogue healer with bandages? Viable. Firestone warlock? Viable. It just gets silly. I think there is room for this sort of flavor at an individual level, I think this sort of thing becomes damaging to the community when a misinformed player is asking for advice and is given grandiose delusions.
Honestly, I'm shocked that posts like this dont get more pushback on this forum. I am all for sharing ideas and trying new things, but when we start to misguide new players with false information on the functionality of a spec it could be really damaging to someones experience. If YOU want to be a prot pally, you should! If someone is asking if a prot pally is less optimal than a warrior and states that he is a casual player, we should immediately direct him away from such a spec. Prot pally takes a TON of min/maxing just to make itself relevant... Even then its a terrible tank that can be used situationally. This doesnt even account for the pushback a prot pally main will face throughout their entire play experience. Lets not become an echo chamber for bad ideas.
Can you guys settle on the fact that you: agree to disagree?!
Each to his own.
I'm still shock horror by the walls of text that just hit me.
Welcome to a text based forum! We love it here! Share ideas, challenge eachother and learn from one another!
On the first night of MC... jeezes. What is that like 0.00001% of the pop? not very realistic. But I agree with the fresh 60 part, it requires a little build up but not to the extent that people complain about. I'd say 1 week after 60 for gearing. Literally, by the time 40 people are level 60 you should be in pre-raid BIS.
Yes. On the first night that YOUR guild does MC. I want to see these specs being used during progression. I'm not interested in raid geared players going back to 5 man content and drinking after every pull WHILE they are being supported by other raid geared players. I am not interested in a paladin with thunderfury hitting a target dummy with flasks on. I want to see their performance while progressing, when it matters. I want to see a prot pally as a fresh 60, with other fresh 60s doing 5 man content. I then want to compare their efficiency and performance against other fresh tanks, both feral and warrior.
The argument shouldn't be whether something can be done. The argument is whether something is worth doing. I am genuinely curious to know if prot paladin is worth doing. I have not played a prot paladin and I have not seen one successfully played in these circumstances. I have watched dozens fail horribly. I maintain that this playstyle will not suit the majority of the userbase. I am curious if outliers who are playing the spec perfectly can even make playing a prot pally valuable in contrast to the other two tanks that are available. I am less interested in seeing footage from private, but I really hope that you guys will keep us updated during Classic. Show us some fresh 60 dungeon runs. Show us your guilds first night in MC. I wont even bully you and request raiding footage past MC... Show me those two aspects of tanking successfully, without drinking after every pull, without being the single slowest party member that is trashing efficiency, without wiping due to your lack of taunt, and I will be convinced.
. I'm not interested in raid geared players going back to 5 man content and drinking after every pull WHILE they are being supported by other raid geared players. I am not interested in a paladin with thunderfury hitting a target dummy with flasks on. I want to see their performance while progressing, when it matters. I want to see a prot pally as a fresh 60, with other fresh 60s doing 5 man content.
Your Ego is quite high for asking too much for something that is already done thousand of times from me personally.
But for your luck to approve your Ego (min/max elitist optimal , most viable blah blah blah) , i didn't had a chance to record everything due to low performance on my pc , slow internet and being unable to stream everything perfect , so i had to play and do it with very low , down to disaster fps.
If this also made your Ego HUGE , it is from Private Server (Nostalrius) recorded where many bugs , which also include your "Optimal Warriors blah blah blah" too.
Progression random blah blah group , fresh lvl 60 with lots of Greens and Poor Items, extremely rare to very low amount of drinking mana per pull (some videos never drinked mana too) and full clearing whole dungeons.
Strat Live ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZJO99uZBw&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzlc3Pbeqew
Scholomance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdXdGvbn8Qo&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kenpKNrRTpc
Diremaul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsqMVL-IcUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyrjF5rOMI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgK6qVmGlMc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kL5BNESywE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXAxOL0t6lc
LBRS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU77JUOtugs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zSOn6Tlo7o
BRD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hXV_-UeCLI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeU2JoSpdME&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hQzVdI-U0s
I am less interested in seeing footage from private
Then you are biggest Asschole for asking something that is not Available in 2019 , neither up until today.
First you request "TOO MUCH" , Second your request is like "Give me this , give me that".
Are you fucking serious ?! Find me a single (FULL DUNGEON OR RAID RUN) , from all of your "GOOD SPECS" Video from 2005 or 2006 in order to prove your claims first before you come here shitting on something that is not possible to be done according to your retarded requests!
Show us your guilds first night in MC.
And this is why i call your requests retarded! What in a hell you are asking where the Game originally is not even released!?
This mean you and your facts are 100% PRIVATE SERVERS and you are being a DICK here full with hate and cherry picking stuffs that can't be done neither from your "PURISTS" , neither from "HYBRIDS".
And no , Originally Hybrids was Equal to ALL Pures , but PRIVATE SERVERS with their bugs and modifications made them "NOT VIABLE" , because ALL Pservers was scripted according to what someone shitted out of his ASS! .
Even Nostalrius devs admitted that Classes like Warriors , Mages,Warlocks was not properly scripted and was highly overtuned compare to Original Classic! Nostalrius is original server where ALL Sources Elysium and Lightshope and Kronos today are using!
I wont even bully you and request raiding footage past MC.
Fresh lvl 60 with Pre Raid , Green Items and Flurry Axe (no stamina , no shits) Main Tanking Raid Boss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe6CrUoLB58&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vQ_TnB6XQ&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IPir_IouQ8&t=3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SDfyrB726Q&t=1s
without drinking after every pull, without being the single slowest party member that is trashing efficiency, without wiping due to your lack of taunt, and I will be convinced.
As you seen on the 5 man Videos , you will have this evidence where I WAIT FOR THE GROUP , not THEM !
Now as i already said you are lucky to prove your EGO , because i was unable to stream whole Runs in the Raid , so i can't show you how Raids was, but i certainly telling you there is 0000000000000000000000.000000000000000 Drinking there, because i could use Runes and Pots instead , not a shitty slacker like those so called "Popular Streamers" who are lazy to use what need to be used in order to make the run Optimal!
You should stop watching those Noobs streamers and stop reading so called "Protection Paladin Experts" on the Forums , because nobody from them have a fucking clue how Paladin Protection is even working in order to be good , so you see mainly false facts , lies and shits about Paladin Tanks.
Instead start following my Youtube Channel , my Streams and wait for Original Classic release , the follow them and Educate yourself what does it mean to have good Protection Paladin in group , not some random Junk who followed Streamers like Alexensual blah blah blah and "Offtanks Paladins" who pretend to be "Paladin Tank Experts" , but start watching the real ones instead, regardless if "Haters or Trolls" shitting on those for other various reasons like you find them doing to me (example).!
Now since you seen how Protection Paladin work on Fresh lvl 60 with Pre Raid blues , Green Items , No Thunderfury , Flurry Axe (low lvl weapon without stats) .
Show me the same from Warriors or Druids! Make sure those Pre Raid Blues, Green Items, No Raid Gear , No Thunderfury and some random Junk weapon and Make sure those are Recorded from Nostalrius , No Lightshope , No Kronos ,No Elysium!
That's a rather hard request.
You see, you most likely won't find such a video from retail, because paladin tanks as main tanks were impossible prior to patch 1.9 revamp. The reason is Seal of Fury existed and sucked. So the only available footage from retail would be from between 1.9 and 1.12, when all the pallies already had raid gear.
Similarly, you won't find a sufficient video from private servers, because most private servers introduced their own bugs that affect paladin tanking. Most common being wrong spell damage coefficients, judgement stacking, or some other funky bugs.
Hence why I am asking for them to stay in touch during Classic. Read the post in full. The validity of these meme specs will be interesting to track throughout the course of Classic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCXN5Qo07dA&t=1s
blah232
Published on May 3, 2006
Protection Paladin Main Tanking Onyxia , you can see the Video (His Spells and Abilites was from PRE 1.9 Patch).
That mean Pre 1.9 Patch = Hardmode Onyxia , NO AQ.
Wait... I am lost. Did anyone ever say paladin are better than ferals/warriors?
Alright good. So we can pretty much agree that prot pallys are trash and are viable in the same way that a mage can be viable for tanking or a rogue can be viable for tanking. It CAN be done but it is not worth doing. In almost all cases this is a spec that is completely useless for the majority of the playerbase and something that should be used later on to add flavor to your own experience. Is it fair to agree that this spec is meme in every sense of the word?
Remember. We are in a post where OP is posing THIS question...
It is normally stated that Paladins can't tank and Warriors are king, but I am was curious if they can legitimately not tank and holds agro or if they are just less optimal than a warrior?
Yes. They are less optimal than a warrior. Not, "can it be done". OP wants to know if it SHOULD be done... The argument of viable VS optimal has almost devolved into the point where viable has been redefined. Now, regardless of the efficiency or performance of ANY spec, they are labeled as viable, because hell, it can be done so its viable right? I think this detracts from a lot of other sub optimal specs that can actually be functional in many regards. Rogue tank? Viable. Boomkin in raids? Viable. Ele shaman in raids? Viable. Rogue healer with bandages? Viable. Firestone warlock? Viable. It just gets silly. I think there is room for this sort of flavor at an individual level, I think this sort of thing becomes damaging to the community when a misinformed player is asking for advice and is given grandiose delusions.
Honestly, I'm shocked that posts like this dont get more pushback on this forum. I am all for sharing ideas and trying new things, but when we start to misguide new players with false information on the functionality of a spec it could be really damaging to someones experience. If YOU want to be a prot pally, you should! If someone is asking if a prot pally is less optimal than a warrior and states that he is a casual player, we should immediately direct him away from such a spec. Prot pally takes a TON of min/maxing just to make itself relevant... Even then its a terrible tank that can be used situationally. This doesnt even account for the pushback a prot pally main will face throughout their entire play experience. Lets not become an echo chamber for bad ideas.
Alright good. So we can pretty much agree that prot pallys are trash and are viable in the same way that a mage can be viable for tanking or a rogue can be viable for tanking. It CAN be done but it is not worth doing. In almost all cases this is a spec that is completely useless for the majority of the playerbase and something that should be used later on to add flavor to your own experience. Is it fair to agree that this spec is meme in every sense of the word?
Alright you little shit , find me a FUCKING MAGE AND ROGUE MAINTANK THIS!
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Yes. They are less optimal than a warrior. Not, "can it be done". OP wants to know if it SHOULD be done... The argument of viable VS optimal has almost devolved into the point where viable has been redefined.
Alright you little Prick , FIND ME A SINGLE THEORYCRAFT WEBSITE FROM 2005 OR 2006 WITH EVIDENCE THAT WARRIORS ARE BETTER TANKS THAN PALADINS! MAKE SURE IT IS EXPLAINED ON DETAILS WHY , NUMBERS AND ETC.
THEN COME HERE WITH YOUR CLAIMS THAT WARRIORS ARE MORE OPTIMAL THAN PALADINS ON TANKING!
Prot pally takes a TON of min/maxing just to make itself relevant... Even then its a terrible tank that can be used situationally. This doesnt even account for the pushback a prot pally main will face throughout their entire play experience. Lets not become an echo chamber for bad ideas.
Only because you been watching fucking Noobs , doesn't make your Facts valid, i know there are so much called "Fake News" Protection Paladin Experts like "Skarm" , "Cystheen" etc etc , but keep in mind they are people "WHO HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE HOW PALADIN WORK".