I started writing this as a reply to someone's post asking for an optimal raid composition in Classic but felt like turning it into a mini-guide. I want the community's feedback on this, and if possible we can make changes here and there for it to be worthy of being an actual resource.
Raid composition in Classic isn't really set in stone. Groups of 40 people are loose enough to afford a few slackers or abnormal builds. However it's good for inexperienced Classic raid leaders to have a proper, basic template to strive for.
Points to remember are generally:
- Warriors are the best tanking class by far and you should feel no shame turning down a well geared Druid for a mediocre warrior as long as they know strats because of their way better damage mitigation. 1 main tank for the boss that has to be a Warrior and 1 or 2 offtanks for adds that can be Warriors or Druids. However in a fight that has tank swapping have at least 2 tanks with Taunt ready.
- Priests are the best healer when it comes to raw output, but it's best advised to have at least one Druid just for their unique buffs. If you're Horde, have 1 Shaman in every party of 4 melee DPS to make the most out of Windfury Totem. If you're Alliance have 4 Paladins, each of them with the important role of buffing an re-buffing classes with Greater Blessings. Fill the rest with Priests so you have about 10 healers total.
- That leaves you with about 26 DPS slots. Prioritize Fury Warriors, Rogues and Mages as they should be the core of your army, but have at least a couple Warlocks and remember certain encounters like in BWL require 1 Hunter with Tranquilizing Shot but Hunters are generally meh in raiding.
***
In case you're not an autonomous person, here's a mathematically perfect raid group that should be functional for most encounters
2 Protection Warriors (Main Tank and Swapping Tank)
2 Protection Warriors or Feral Druids (Add swiping/cleaving)
2 Restoration Druids (Combat Res)
If Horde: 4 Restoration Shamans (Total Melee classes in your raid divided by 4, rounded up)
If Alliance: 4 Holy Paladins (* = "Greater Blessing of " to avoid repetition)
>One casts *Might on melees and *Wisdom on mana users
>Another casts *Kings on every class
>Another casts *Light on every class
>The last one casts *Salvation on everyone else
4 Holy Priests, or fill enough to have 10 total healers
7 Fury Warriors
7 Rogues
7 Mages (Each can be replaced with a very well geared Warlock instead)
3 Warlocks (For Curses, Banishing, Summoning and Soulstone)
1 Hunter (for Tranquilizing Shot and Aspect)
1 Shadow Priest (for the debuff)
Some high damage encounters require up to 14 healers. Warrior/Rogue/Mage damage dealers are expendable compared to the healers and utility classes, and you can swap the least geared ones out for more Priests if your tanks are dying too fast. If you're doing 4 Horsemen, you'll need 8 Protection Warrior tanks, so swap even more DPS out for them accordingly.
***
If you're Horde, remember to put DPS groups exactly like this for maximum efficiency and fill the extra empty slots and other groups however you want:
Ｓ - Shaman with Windfury
Ｗ - Fury Warrior
Ｒ - Rogue
Ｔ - Tank
Ｗ Ｗ Ｗ Ｗ
Ｗ Ｗ Ｗ Ｔ
Ｒ Ｒ Ｒ Ｒ
Ｒ Ｒ Ｒ Ｔ
Ｓ Ｓ Ｓ Ｓ
1 Hunter won't even get you past Magmadar in MC (without your healers carrying the slack - his enrage is shorter cd than tranq)
I'd have a lot more to say but I'll leave it at, your guide is factually wrong about several things (warrior > druid because taunt?, what's growl then?)
Let's just say that it's definitely not suitable for inexperienced Classic raid leaders to have a proper, basic template to strive for.
It's a guide made by an inexperienced raid leader in Classic :razz:
"3 Warlocks (For Curses, Summoning and Soulstone)" Warlocks are brought for banishes. This whole "guide" is meh. Low effort, low quality. Could highlight a ton of issues after a quick glance but then I'd be writing your guide for you.
I asked this in the other thread, but guess I'll ask it here too - what makes a warrior taunt better than a druid taunt?
Lol this guide is trash. So much of it is wrong. It seems like he thinks druids dont have taunts? Pally has better HPS than priest most of the time. Due to limited debuff slots, warlocks for curses ain't a thing.
I don't recommend any follow this guide, it seems like they just watched some youtard videos and decided they were the ultimate raid leader.
Edit: IMO every raid comp should have a war MT and a druid as primary OT. 3rd and 4th string is up to whoever is available.
what makes a warrior taunt better than a druid taunt?
I'm not aware that it is? I think people forget that bears have growl. people also forget that we do have an AOE taunt for when shit hits the fan too. I'd like to hear an explanation as to why people think this too...
It seems like he thinks druids dont have taunts?
I don't recommend any follow this guide, it seems like they just watched some youtard videos and decided they were the ultimate raid leader.
You don't have to get this mad over a forum post, druid main
what makes a warrior taunt better than a druid taunt?
I was tired and thinking of pally tanks when I wrote that part, my bad
Replies were kinda rude considering I never meant any of this post to be taken as a holy bible, but more like fun speculation of what a mathematically square raid team would look like. Obviously flawed here and there and would not be functional without community feedback but let's separate actual veteran advice/corrections from enraged druid mains flipping the fuck out when you imply a warrior could do their job better.
midoo
Apologies if I sounded rude - intention was far from it. I asked why you thought there was a difference in case you had something in mind that I didn't know.
I'm a bit split because I had to answer this on the other forum post as well
[...]bear druids aren't much farther behind Warrior tanks, but their damage mitigation comes from dodge mostly which makes the damage they take kind of unpredictable and erratic to healers.
Druid tanking is obviously doable but if you have the option of taking a low geared bear tank or a low geared warrior tank (people will start raiding in their dungeon blues soon) the warrior is the best choice
Priests are the best healer when it comes to raw output,
I love you Midoo but there's tons of statements you make that need to be addressed. Druids and warriors are on a nearly equal footing (there's still an understandable debate but they're practically twins.) In regards to priest healing, in a coordinated group people tend to take less damage and PWS becomes more prevalent. They're not technically "healing", they're preventing. On top of that Scarab Brooch comes into play and further muddies the water on who is "best".
Depending on the boss fight length, a druid with the ZG trinket competes if not outright surpasses a Priest in healing. But ofc this depends on if the druid can play the downrank/overheal mini-game which is legendarily hard to do. Idk about the Regrowth coefficient on Classic but on pserver this made them gods.
If I'd ever come across Midoo I'd kill & tea-bag him with my big hairy bear-testicles for telling big phawt lies about us DuRIdS.
No rudeness intended.
At least now we know https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=5229/enrage works as intended :^)
If I'd ever come across Midoo I'd kill & tea-bag him with my big hairy bear-testicles for telling big phawt lies about us DuRIdS.
No rudeness intended.
:lol:
It seems like most of the people who write guides, do so without having actually play tested anything they write about. After hearing Caperfin say Thunderfury wasn't a good tank weapon, or that it was overrated and then seeing his dungeon cleave guide, I'm starting to think that most of the people who are drawn to writing guides are those who cant really achieve much in the game so they find fulfillment in talking about achieving things in the game. Of course there are incredible guides out there, like Taladrils druid tanking guide (which you should read OP), but most of these guides are complete and utter garbage. They are just a random notepad full of ideas that an intermediate player thinks are important based on their own perspective from raiding... Some of these guides are based on raw theorycrafting and speculation and have never even been tested. If you havent played at the highest level and if you havent mastered a craft, you shouldnt be trying to write guides, because you probably dont know what youre talking about and you will inevitably do a lot more harm than good.
You can say this was not intended to be the "holy bible" but then what was it intended for? It is a guide. You labeled it a guide. Yet the post doesnt guide anyone... Its just awful and riddled with inaccuracy. And then you say that a guide like this requires community feedback? Why? Guides like this already exist. Theyre accurate. Written by knowledgeable players and dont require being rewritten. I could wipe my ass on a piece of paper and call it a guide and then post it here asking the community to give me feedback so that it turns into the perfect raid composition guide but why would the community help? The foundation of the guide is a streak of feces on a piece of paper. No one should bother putting feedback into this. We need some better criteria for what should/can be considered a "guide" in my opinion. As a community we should actively avoid supporting these "guides" because they cause grief in the greater community by misinforming players who need guidance and cant separate fact from fiction on their own because they lack experience.
My bad for the wording then. I guess I should have clarified my intentions.
This isn't some finished product meant to be used as law, but more like my own vague attempt at getting something started.
Whether my information was accurate or not wasn't really the point. I just wanted to start a thread on the forum that would evolve into a reliable raid composition guide and used my own messy guesses and (admittedly hazy) experiences raiding in older expansions so we could at least have some sort of initiative. I didn't think a minimum of 2 druid mains would take it as an intentional middle finger to their class or anything, sorry if I came off as too assertive or controversial.
NB: My recent experience in Classic definitely proved me wrong about feral tanks.