I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if theirs a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.
Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.
I think that Old School Runescape is the best example of how to keep the old school feeling in the gameplay while still having fresh content patches released all the time. Before the Old School Runescape team started releasing these patches and just let the game run on it's on, you could see a clear downwards trend in the peak daily player population, The game started of with 70k+ peak but it hit as low as 10k-ish players peak per day after a year or two. Currently they are sitting on 100k+, which goes to show that there is a need for new content at some point down the line.
I don't see a point of this but I am aware of size and numbers of conent available in Classic. This is one of my biggest problems, that there will be a point in life cycle of Classic that there wont be anything NEW to do.
I get that the fact that Blizzard wanted it in vanilla and I understand the desire based on that, but warlocks were also intended to have sufficient melee ability and that didn't pan out either. If they patched vanilla to give warlocks a melee spec that would be fucking awful.
So unfortunately I'm a no on this one.
Kara is my favourite raid. If it was added it would need to have minimal impact on progression, slotted in somewhere at the start, but what's the point.
Id happily wait for legit TBC for it eventually rather than break the cycle of classic.
If there was ever a raid that wasn't in Vanilla that should have been it would be Karazhan. The entire instance is a microcosm of Vanilla dungeons and raids in terms of variety. All of the different landscapes and boss types (and fights) were incredibly delightful and I wouldn't complain if it were added to Classic. Beside the fact that it is located in an area that is within Vanilla territory it doesn't feel out of place regardless of the time it was put in game to be playable.
TBC severs will be avaliable I guess. So there is no need for this.
Most definitely not. That would be changing vanilla, we don't want that :lol:
I also want to experience the game as close as possible to how it was back then, and even though I loved Kara, I feel like it’s place is in TBC.
Perhaps one day they might release BC classic, and perhaps revisiting Kara then would be less special even?
I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if theirs a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.
Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.
I think that Old School Runescape is the best example of how to keep the old school feeling in the gameplay while still having fresh content patches released all the time. Before the Old School Runescape team started releasing these patches and just let the game run on it's on, you could see a clear downwards trend in the peak daily player population, The game started of with 70k+ peak but it hit as low as 10k-ish players peak per day after a year or two. Currently they are sitting on 100k+, which goes to show that there is a need for new content at some point down the line.
Yeah, I agree with this line of thinking. I am excited for classic to be just classic. But after a while it's going to suck that there won't be anything new to do. I'm not sure I want classic to be a simple museum piece that people get tired of and abandon over time. I would like to see it follow the OSRS model and start developing new content patches that stick to the framework of classic, adding new content without adding retarded new 'features'. Keep the gameplay true to the classic model, but add new content to do a few years in.
But to answer the question from the original post, I would like to see Kara added post-naxx. Not as a catchup raid, but on top of or next to it in progression. There needs to eventually be somewhere to go after naxx.
I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if theirs a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.
Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.
I think that Old School Runescape is the best example of how to keep the old school feeling in the gameplay while still having fresh content patches released all the time. Before the Old School Runescape team started releasing these patches and just let the game run on it's on, you could see a clear downwards trend in the peak daily player population, The game started of with 70k+ peak but it hit as low as 10k-ish players peak per day after a year or two. Currently they are sitting on 100k+, which goes to show that there is a need for new content at some point down the line.
Yeah, I agree with this line of thinking. I am excited for classic to be just classic. But after a while it's going to suck that there won't be anything new to do. I'm not sure I want classic to be a simple museum piece that people get tired of and abandon over time. I would like to see it follow the OSRS model and start developing new content patches that stick to the framework of classic, adding new content without adding retarded new 'features'. Keep the gameplay true to the classic model, but add new content to do a few years in.
But to answer the question from the original post, I would like to see Kara added post-naxx. Not as a catchup raid, but on top of or next to it in progression. There needs to eventually be somewhere to go after naxx.
I'm also in this camp. I want the "as pure as can be" Classic experience for a few years, with eventual "content patches" which add zones and dungeons to the game (as was originally planned before the expansion model was adopted for TBC).
A lot of elements of TBC were originally planned for classic wow, as has been stated by other posters here.
I would be so down for Kara in vanilla, but not as a catchup raid, but rather as a post naxx raid.
I also don't think they should go to TBC after vanilla. I know a lot of people want that, but I would prefer vanilla to stay vanilla with added content later on. I love the TBC talent tree design and would love to see some form of implementation of that, or even new spells and abilities as well, like treeform form druid for instance. But level cap should not be increased, so how they would do this is up to them. If they want to make some paragon system like they had in diablo 3 sure, although I don't think that would necessarily be the right call.
More classic content in line with the classic values is what should happen.
A lot of elements of TBC were originally planned for classic wow, as has been stated by other posters here.
I would be so down for Kara in vanilla, but not as a catchup raid, but rather as a post naxx raid.
I also don't think they should go to TBC after vanilla. I know a lot of people want that, but I would prefer vanilla to stay vanilla with added content later on. I love the TBC talent tree design and would love to see some form of implementation of that, or even new spells and abilities as well, like treeform form druid for instance. But level cap should not be increased, so how they would do this is up to them. If they want to make some paragon system like they had in diablo 3 sure, although I don't think that would necessarily be the right call.
More classic content in line with the classic values is what should happen.
I'd subscribe to your newsletter. I agree wholeheartedly.
So much of TBC's content was pulled from what would have been content patches in Classic (Black Morass, Karazhan, Opening the Dark Portal).
Coming from Warcraft III into Vanilla WoW, so much of TBC felt like a misstep - with Blood Elves and Draenei added to the existing factions in lieu of an Illidari Faction being added (as they had originally planned, to my understanding). The characterization of "heroes" from TFT in TBC felt jarring (with Kael'thas, Vashj, Akama, and Illidan all feeling like saturday-morning cartoon villains with a disjointed plot of building a new Well of Eternity on Outland). The myriad retcons of the Draenei (oh actually they are pretty, oh actually they are Eredar, oh actually the Sargeras stuff was like THIS) drew a lot of criticism on the forums up until release of TBC - and then was just kind of accepted by the community.
There were 12 content patches for Vanilla - compared to at most 4 in each of the expansions. At launch the developers pushed back against the expansion cycle of Everquest, and with benefit of hindsight we can see how every single expansion to WoW has utterly invalidated all previous content - turning it into nothing more than a hurdle standing in the way of "the (end)game content".
The original vision of Vanilla, before the insane reception and following the game found shifted that vision, was for a level 60 ever-expanding world of content.
Coming from Warcraft III into Vanilla WoW, so much of TBC felt like a misstep - with Blood Elves and Draenei added to the existing factions in lieu of an Illidari Faction being added (as they had originally planned, to my understanding). The characterization of "heroes" from TFT in TBC felt jarring (with Kael'thas, Vashj, Akama, and Illidan all feeling like saturday-morning cartoon villains with a disjointed plot of building a new Well of Eternity on Outland). The myriad retcons of the Draenei (oh actually they are pretty, oh actually they are Eredar, oh actually the Sargeras stuff was like THIS) drew a lot of criticism on the forums up until release of TBC - and then was just kind of accepted by the community.
That's the thing man... so many things of TBC COULD have been amazing. I actually don't mind Blood Elves and Draenei as playable races. Blood Elves are a pretty cool race, and Draenei in WC3 were cool too. But having the playable Draenei being... whatever the hell they were in WoW was a massive misstep and I was so unbelieveably disappointed when I learned they weren't the "broken" draenei. Kael, Vashj, Illidan, Akama, these were all awesome characters in WC3/TFT but in TBC... I didn't even want to kill them. Like why? These characters are way too cool to kill and I have never viewed them as "evil" characters.
Again and again with these adding things to Vanilla, It will not be VANILLA if we add things to it. I mean, we haven't even got it yet and people still plan on how to change it? Stuff like that makes me want to gank Alliance more then I already planned :mad: :mad:
If you don't like Vanilla for what it is, then play current retail, change happens there all the time, not always for the better but still.
LEAVE BRITTNEY(read classic) ALONE
/Mooo
I wouldn't mind if they added Kara after Naxx is on farm by 50% ? of the raiding guilds. I think they should make it drop the same ilvl gear as Naxx but have new sets with different set bonuses, maby we could mix and match the sets and get some great results (tank druid set, dps sets for hybrids etc.)
It should not be a catch up raid, but on par with Naxx difficulty.