Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.
You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.
There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopukated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.
You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.
Did you play during the Darkshore airdrops? It would be like that for sure IMO.
One faction makes tons of raids to hold it down and the other gives up, especially on a unbalanced realm like most are, in addition to having no way to get your faction backup without cross realm technology active.
I’m really struggling to see a positive outcome for your idea in its current form.
Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.
You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.
There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopukated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.
You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.
Did you play during the Darkshore airdrops? It would be like that for sure IMO.
One faction makes tons of raids to hold it down and the other gives up, especially on a unbalanced realm like most are, in addition to having no way to get your faction backup without cross realm technology active.
I’m really struggling to see a positive outcome for your idea in its current form.
What were the Darkshore airdrops? I heard about that. I mean the resource nodes would randomly spawn all over the zones. However, it is true that some pvp servers might be 80% Horde and 20% Alliance in those zones. There wouldn't really be much of a reason to zerg, because the resources would be so spread out. How do you incentivize the Alliance to enter the battlezone if they are outnumbered? Do you give them bonus honor for turnins? Or change the resource nodes. I am thinking about this.
Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.
You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.
There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopukated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.
You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.
Did you play during the Darkshore airdrops? It would be like that for sure IMO.
One faction makes tons of raids to hold it down and the other gives up, especially on a unbalanced realm like most are, in addition to having no way to get your faction backup without cross realm technology active.
I’m really struggling to see a positive outcome for your idea in its current form.
What were the Darkshore airdrops? I heard about that. I mean the resource nodes would randomly spawn all over the zones. However, it is true that some pvp servers might be 80% Horde and 20% Alliance in those zones. How do you incentivize the Alliance to enter the battlezone if they are outnumbered? Do you give them bonus honor for turnins? Or change the resource nodes. I am thinking about this.
Bounty Hunter
When you enter a War Mode enabled zone, you will start off with Soldier of the Alliance/ Soldier of the Horde, and killing opposite faction members that grant honor will give you 6 additional honor. If you manage to kill 10 members of the opposite faction without dying, you will be promoted to Alliance Assassin/ Horde Assassin and gain 15% increased damage and healing until you leave the zone or die.
If you stay further and kill more members of the opposite faction, you might become Bounty Hunted. While in this state, your location will be marked on the maps of every member of the opposite faction in the zone with War Mode turned on, and you're unable to mount (you can, however, mount with someone who is riding a two-seater mount). Killing a player that has a bounty placed on its head will grant the person who killed the bounty 50 Conquest points, and the bounty will also drop a bag on the floor that contains Honor points and PvP gear.
Air Supply Drops spawn roughly every 20 minutes, at the northern part of the zone, and fly towards the border with Ashenvale. The planes that brings the supply drops is faster than a mastered epic flight mount, so you're unable to keep up with it, but it makes a very loud engine sound to announce its coming.
Those are contested just like the chest in the Gurubashi Arena, with a long open time. The Darkshore Version of the Air Supply Drops is dropping Darkshore World Quest gear, with a chance to titanforge.
A landed crate
A claimed crate (Alliance)
Now what happened here is one faction would control a zone with multiple raids and the other was either instantly killed or just stayed away from the area and looking for a shard with their faction in control, now obviously there is no sharding like this and cross realm but it would end the same on a unbalanced realm and further push people on the other faction away from the zone or even the realm since it’s a sub par realm to be in, in order to be most effective.
I don’t know how you could fix that with your idea, I guess you have to figure out a system for it or add cross realm or limit the amount of players able to enter the zone which would make entirely other issues.
Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.
You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.
There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopukated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.
You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.
Did you play during the Darkshore airdrops? It would be like that for sure IMO.
One faction makes tons of raids to hold it down and the other gives up, especially on a unbalanced realm like most are, in addition to having no way to get your faction backup without cross realm technology active.
I’m really struggling to see a positive outcome for your idea in its current form.
What were the Darkshore airdrops? I heard about that. I mean the resource nodes would randomly spawn all over the zones. However, it is true that some pvp servers might be 80% Horde and 20% Alliance in those zones. How do you incentivize the Alliance to enter the battlezone if they are outnumbered? Do you give them bonus honor for turnins? Or change the resource nodes. I am thinking about this.
Bounty Hunter
When you enter a War Mode enabled zone, you will start off with Soldier of the Alliance/ Soldier of the Horde, and killing opposite faction members that grant honor will give you 6 additional honor. If you manage to kill 10 members of the opposite faction without dying, you will be promoted to Alliance Assassin/ Horde Assassin and gain 15% increased damage and healing until you leave the zone or die.
If you stay further and kill more members of the opposite faction, you might become Bounty Hunted. While in this state, your location will be marked on the maps of every member of the opposite faction in the zone with War Mode turned on, and you're unable to mount (you can, however, mount with someone who is riding a two-seater mount). Killing a player that has a bounty placed on its head will grant the person who killed the bounty 50 Conquest points, and the bounty will also drop a bag on the floor that contains Honor points and PvP gear.
Air Supply Drops spawn roughly every 20 minutes, at the northern part of the zone, and fly towards the border with Ashenvale. The planes that brings the supply drops is faster than a mastered epic flight mount, so you're unable to keep up with it, but it makes a very loud engine sound to announce its coming.
Those are contested just like the chest in the Gurubashi Arena, with a long open time. The Darkshore Version of the Air Supply Drops is dropping Darkshore World Quest gear, with a chance to titanforge.
A landed crate
A claimed crate (Alliance)
Now what happened here is one faction would control a zone with multiple raids and the other was either instantly killed or just stayed away from the area and looking for a shard with their faction in control, now obviously there is no sharding like this and cross realm but it would end the same on a unbalanced realm and further push people on the other faction away from the zone or even the realm since it’s a sub par realm to be in, in order to be most effective.
I don’t know how you could fix that with your idea, I guess you have to figure out a system for it or add cross realm or limit the amount of players able to enter the zone which would make entirely other issues.
Thank you for that BFA tidbit. I can see how problematic those Airship drops would be. Having only a few chests in open locations would be a total zergfest controlled by the dominant faction. If there were 100 of those chests spread across Darkshore, would players be as likely to zerg? Why would you when you would have to share the reward with your raid group?
Back to the Battlezone idea. Let's say there are 80 Horde and 20 Alliance in Winterspring doing the battle. I would make it so that the Alliance receive more honor per turn-in than the Horde, due to the population imbalance. Horde players will also be competing against eachother for resources, so why gangup and zerg the Alliance, when it is likely more efficient to roam solo and gather resources. Splitting the players up into small group sizes is the whole point of this system. It would give a less populated faction more of a competitive chance as well.
The spawn rates, honor rewards, and other factors would likely need to be adjusted based on the population of each faction in the battlezonw. Obviously, you can't make the zone crossrealm.
Not sure I like the idea of a faction working against each other internally. I think it would promote griefing and such and cause a toxic environment.
I don’t know.
Not sure I like the idea of a faction working against each other internally. I think it would promote griefing and such and cause a toxic environment.
I don’t know.
You wouldn't be working against your own faction, but you would be incentivized to split up and roam to gather resources. The faction score would just give a zone-wide buff when the battle ends. The honor rewards would be based on individual contributions. This whole thing needs tweaking, since something about it seems off.
No.
Furthermore... No.
In conclusion, No.
I appreciate the discussion and the creativity that goes into something like this but as I stated earlier... Classic should remain... well, Classic.
No.
Furthermore... No.
In conclusion, No.
I appreciate the discussion and the creativity that goes into something like this but as I stated earlier... Classic should remain... well, Classic.
#NoChanges :biggrin:
No.
Furthermore... No.
In conclusion, No.
I appreciate the discussion and the creativity that goes into something like this but as I stated earlier... Classic should remain... well, Classic.
How would this not be awesome though? Give players another way to farm honor. Have resources they can collect around a map, but also make them drop when killed in PvP. It brings more players out of the Capital Cities and away from 24/7 BG queue spamming.
There has been a recent development. Apparently, in 1.12 The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus gave 200 honor per turn in. That seems like a lot, so then why wasn't collecting these Silithyst crystals more popular, if the honor reward was pretty high?
How would this not be awesome though? Give players another way to farm honor. Have resources they can collect around a map, but also make them drop when killed in PvP. It brings more players out of the Capital Cities and away from 24/7 BG queue spamming.
Because it has been done. We have seen the result of this exact type of gameplay. It does not work. If you had actually played warhammer or played all of WoW up to and including BFA, or if you had actual experience working on vanilla wow (as you have eluded to in the past) you would be able to use your critical thinking to realize that this is a poor idea. You arent moving the ball forward in the conversation... You arent coming up with new ideas. You are taking ideas that are over a decade old and regurgitating a subtle variance to the original idea.
I've already went over this with you before. You want more world PvP. Your ideas are ALL related to increasing world PvP. What you dont realize, is that each of your ideas have been implemented previously in a similar variant and have failed to work... I'll state this again. HONOR PER HOUR. If you want more world PvP, adjust the honor that world kills give and thus players will be incentivized to farm World PvP instead of battlegrounds. I am not saying I agree with you, because I don't, but if you want MORE world PvP, simply adjust the reward from world PvP. You dont need boats, and player housing and air drops and PvP zones on timers and treasure chests... None of those terrible ideas are necessary. Just adjust the reward from PvP to favor farming world PvP and players will farm World PvP. This will come with a host of other issues, but this is the outcome you want. Players will be less interested in BG's and will spend all of their time farming honor in the world.
I am a PvPer. I love PvP. I made it to rank 13 in retail vanilla. Vanilla is a PvE game with PvP sprinkled in. As much as I love PvP, the game went to shit when PvP became the focal point of the game. If you want a PvP focused game, you do not want Classic. It is not a PvP focused game. There are elements of PvP that are used to enhance the overall experience and to reinforce the lore that glues the world together, but this game is a PvE game.
There has been a recent development. Apparently, in 1.12 The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus gave 200 honor per turn in. That seems like a lot, so then why wasn't collecting these Silithyst crystals more popular, if the honor reward was pretty high?
Because NO variation of this system has ever stuck! Ever. Ever. Ever. It does not work. Your idea is not new. It has been done.
How would this not be awesome though? Give players another way to farm honor. Have resources they can collect around a map, but also make them drop when killed in PvP. It brings more players out of the Capital Cities and away from 24/7 BG queue spamming.
Because it has been done. We have seen the result of this exact type of gameplay. It does not work. If you had actually played warhammer or played all of WoW up to and including BFA, or if you had actual experience working on vanilla wow (as you have eluded to in the past) you would be able to use your critical thinking to realize that this is a poor idea. You arent moving the ball forward in the conversation... You arent coming up with new ideas. You are taking ideas that are over a decade old and regurgitating a subtle variance to the original idea.
I've already went over this with you before. You want more world PvP. Your ideas are ALL related to increasing world PvP. What you dont realize, is that each of your ideas have been implemented previously in a similar variant and have failed to work... I'll state this again. HONOR PER HOUR. If you want more world PvP, adjust the honor that world kills give and thus players will be incentivized to farm World PvP instead of battlegrounds. I am not saying I agree with you, because I don't, but if you want MORE world PvP, simply adjust the reward from world PvP. You dont need boats, and player housing and air drops and PvP zones on timers and treasure chests... None of those terrible ideas are necessary. Just adjust the reward from PvP to favor farming world PvP and players will farm World PvP. This will come with a host of other issues, but this is the outcome you want. Players will be less interested in BG's and will spend all of their time farming honor in the world.
I am a PvPer. I love PvP. I made it to rank 13 in retail vanilla. Vanilla is a PvE game with PvP sprinkled in. As much as I love PvP, the game went to shit when PvP became the focal point of the game. If you want a PvP focused game, you do not want Classic. It is not a PvP focused game. There are elements of PvP that are used to enhance the overall experience and to reinforce the lore that glues the world together, but this game is a PvE game.
There has been a recent development. Apparently, in 1.12 The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus gave 200 honor per turn in. That seems like a lot, so then why wasn't collecting these Silithyst crystals more popular, if the honor reward was pretty high?
Because NO variation of this system has ever stuck! Ever. Ever. Ever. It does not work. Your idea is not new. It has been done.
I agree that Blizzard changing the focus to Arena and ratings was a bad idea. There are simply better games out there that do that kind of thing. Yes, the honor rewards in World PvP should be made way higher, but you still need reasons for players to populate the zones. The issue is creating quality World PvP. Part of the reason it never works is because it devolves into activities like zerging or flightmaster camping. Those behaviors are not healthy for World PvP or the game. You want players roaming entire zones and splitting up. The purpose being to create mostly small scale fights..
The only time this resource concept existed was with The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus. It is fairly similar to the idea suggested in the OP. Silithyst geysers could be looted in the zone, and players would turn in the Silithyst for a 200 honor reward. I think that this idea had promise, but could have been improved upon.
Players will take the path of least resistance. Honor per hour. Your idea would encourage players to run right by each other. The fact that you can’t realize that shows that you have no foresight. Every effort Blizz has made to create world conflict has been a terrible implementation. This is not a PvP game and it does not need to be transformed into a PvP game. You don’t want Classic. You want some awful mutated version of the game that would appeal to a very small portion of the user-base. You’re asking for specific critiques but that is impossible because no part of this idea is salvageable. We have already seen variations be implemented by Blizz and in other MMOs and it always fails. Why would we advocate for adding a failed system to Classic?
Players will take the path of least resistance. Honor per hour. Your idea would encourage players to run right by each other. The fact that you can’t realize that shows that you have no foresight. Every effort Blizz has made to create world conflict has been a terrible implementation. This is not a PvP game and it does not need to be transformed into a PvP game. You don’t want Classic. You want some awful mutated version of the game that would appeal to a very small portion of the user-base. You’re asking for specific critiques but that is impossible because no part of this idea is salvageable. We have already seen variations be implemented by Blizz and in other MMOs and it always fails. Why would we advocate for adding a failed system to Classic?
I agree that Blizzard's World PvP implementations were failures. However, the Silithus one actually had decent rewards and potential. I read that on Kronos a lot of players were farming Silithyst Geysers instead of doing Battlegrounds. It became so popular on Kronos that the developers nerfed the Honor gain from 200 to 19 or whatever it currently is on retail. This thread details the drama https://forum.twinstar.cz/threads/silithyst-geyser-nerf-remove.100845/
Back during Vanilla, I do not think many players were aware of the potential honor gains available in silithus. It was 200 honor for 1 turn-in. I am critical of how the system worked. You could only carry one resource at a time, and they would often spawn mear the turn-in location. I realize that ignoring PvP and just collecting the geysers one by one was the best strategy. That system was flawed for that reason. This video shows the Silithus objective:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=b8zo6W6_Pc4&t=1m27s
You could only collect one geyser at a time, and it seemed like the best strategy was to collect the geyser and run it back to your base camp. Why gank another player and loot the geyser off them, when you instead can just find your own geyser?
This video sort of demonstrates that. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gEr5-RVhyHs
If Silithus is as game breaking as you say it is, we sure don’t need more honor versions and hopefully it’ll get rained in by Blizzard.