Yeah. I think TBC ruined the game and led to its current state. Less social interaction. More instanced gameplay. Fewer zones. Faster travel. Poor reward structures etc.. TBC started all that. Vanilla wad server-only until the very end, meaning you only played with players on your own server. I am convinced players are nostalgic about TBC, and that it wouldn't be as well received today.
I agree that TBC was the start to becoming what BFA is today and what the other expansions were.
Eventually being this casual, almost arcade style game.
But it doesnt make TBC a bad game/expierence.
You can have flaws in a game and it can still be great!
Like i said numerous times I enjoyed TBC alot!
I also enjoyed Wrath but not as much as the other two...after that i think i grew out of playing the game and my friends stopped playing and real life/responsibilities hit me!
I dont think i am nostalgia about vanilla and TBC, maybe a little, but I enjoy the RPG element immensely, art work and slow pace the game is!
Why cant you just enjoy the game for now dude, its been out for a week lol
Stfuppercut, Selexin, teebling, hear me out. I know this is not a great thread by any means, and I'm most certainly not going to claim otherwise. It's attention grabbing, it's essentially a re-post from an existing thread, and the subject matter will invariably devolve into a shitfest.
However, if you look at RedridgeGnoll's responses to criticisms, he usually does take it in stride, and tends to stick to his original talking points, however poorly argued they may be. That demeanor does a lot to alleviate the tension and bitterness.
Black Monarch's threads on the other hand, are utterly vacuous and substantially inferior in quality by any measurable standard. His defensiveness heavily accentuates his insecurities, and his false sense of intellectual superiority bleeds into every response, leaving you with that Blizzard Official Forums taste in your mouth. He's obviously just doing it for Barrens Chat level ups.
Thoughts?
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
Stfuppercut, Selexin, teebling, hear me out. I know this is not a great thread by any means, and I'm most certainly not going to claim otherwise. It's attention grabbing, it's essentially a re-post from an existing thread, and the subject matter will invariably devolve into a shitfest.
However, if you look at RedridgeGnoll's responses to criticisms, he usually does take it in stride, and tends to stick to his original talking points, however poorly argued they may be. That demeanor does a lot to alleviate the tension and bitterness.
Black Monarch's threads on the other hand, are utterly vacuous and substantially inferior in quality by any measurable standard. His defensiveness heavily accentuates his insecurities, and his false sense of intellectual superiority bleeds into every response, leaving you with that Blizzard Official Forums taste in your mouth. He's obviously just doing it for Barrens Chat level ups.
Thoughts?
Monarch has poorly thought out ideas and very low effort posts that are designed to stimulate attention. Whether people agree with him or disagree with him, he chalks it up to a win. He just wants attention. If people post criticism about him, like this, he smirks and thinks he won and if they agree with him, he appreciates the acknowledgement. Just a very immature guy.
Redridge is just unstable. His ideas are completely awful and they never change. We are stuck in an endless loop with gnoll because his mind never moves and idea forward it just keeps replicating and regurgitating over and over and over and over... Redridges post kept this forum alive for many of the dead weeks, but not by his own design. We sort of profiteered off of his insanity and used it to keep our own while we waited for Classic.
They both of their place on the forums and I cant really choose which one causes more or less damage. Every village needs an idiot, and we're fortunate enough to have three (looking at you Duki). I actually still get excited when I see any of them post because its usually the calm before the storm and while their posts never really stimulate productive or valuable discourse, they do stimulate discourse. Without them most days would be filled with "What Class Should I Play? Is this suboptimal build viable? SLOW DOWN YOURE ALL GOING TOO FAST!!!", so I welcome their awful posts and will continue to post on them despite it being a complete and total waste of effort. I will continue to post because I get personal enjoyment out of posting on some of their meaningless threads.
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
Which is why I am still here. My servers community is dead ingame. Layering killed it. So I have my friends list, my guild, my server discord and Barrens chat.
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
If you think this is drama. You should have seen my guild chat on Grobbulus.
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
If you think this is drama. You should have seen my guild chat on Grobbulus.
The common denominator there being Gnoll. Who likely caused the drama if I had to guess bahahaa.
Stfuppercut, Selexin, teebling, hear me out. I know this is not a great thread by any means, and I'm most certainly not going to claim otherwise. It's attention grabbing, it's essentially a re-post from an existing thread, and the subject matter will invariably devolve into a shitfest.
However, if you look at RedridgeGnoll's responses to criticisms, he usually does take it in stride, and tends to stick to his original talking points, however poorly argued they may be. That demeanor does a lot to alleviate the tension and bitterness.
Black Monarch's threads on the other hand, are utterly vacuous and substantially inferior in quality by any measurable standard. His defensiveness heavily accentuates his insecurities, and his false sense of intellectual superiority bleeds into every response, leaving you with that Blizzard Official Forums taste in your mouth. He's obviously just doing it for Barrens Chat level ups.
Thoughts?
Monarch has poorly thought out ideas and very low effort posts that are designed to stimulate attention. Whether people agree with him or disagree with him, he chalks it up to a win. He just wants attention. If people post criticism about him, like this, he smirks and thinks he won and if they agree with him, he appreciates the acknowledgement. Just a very immature guy.
Redridge is just unstable. His ideas are completely awful and they never change. We are stuck in an endless loop with gnoll because his mind never moves and idea forward it just keeps replicating and regurgitating over and over and over and over... Redridges post kept this forum alive for many of the dead weeks, but not by his own design. We sort of profiteered off of his insanity and used it to keep our own while we waited for Classic.
They both of their place on the forums and I cant really choose which one causes more or less damage. Every village needs an idiot, and we're fortunate enough to have three (looking at you Duki). I actually still get excited when I see either of them post because its usually the calm before the storm and while their posts never really stimulate productive or valuable discourse, they do stimulate discourse. Without them most days would be filled with "What Class Should I Play? Is this suboptimal build viable? SLOW DOWN YOURE ALL GOING TOO FAST!!!", so I welcome their awful posts and will continue to post on them despite it being a complete and total waste of effort.
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
Which is why I am still here. My servers community is dead ingame. Layering killed it. So I have my friends list, my guild, my server discord and Barrens chat.
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players. Look at the streaming community. They are exploiting and powering through the raid content as fast as possible. Some of them will use similar tactics onces battlegrounds are released, assuming these streamers are still playing by then. Most won't be. So the question is, how do you make Classic WoW more competitive. PvP is the answer. Nobody wants to watch Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin. Players AFKing on flags. That is boring. Arena was Blizzard's answer to more competitive PvP. Arena was the wrong answer.
Classic WoW is special because of the open world. I realize that what Classic WoW is missing is better World PvP. That is why I make suggestions on how to improve World PvP in Classic. My ideas are not well developed admittedly and have many flaws. Some of them are outright stupid like that Zeppelin/Boats map I concocted. I receive a lot of great feedback on this forum, and the users here are actually willing to discuss and constructively criticize the suggestions I make, instead of spamming #nochanges.
Classic WoW is a great game, especially if you enjoy socializing and immersing yourself in a fantasy world. However, I realize that there are aspects of popular gaming that it is missing.
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players.
Private server players disagree with you.
Look at the streaming community.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.
The other gibberish gets brought up by you each and every day and has been addressed. Youre wrong. Develop the idea a bit more and try to get a better delivery.
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players.
Private server players disagree with you.
Look at the streaming community.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.
The other gibberish gets brought up by you each and every day and has been addressed. Youre wrong. Develop the idea a bit more and try to get a better delivery.
Blizzard agrees with me. Look at retail. The PvE is more challenging. The PvP is more competitive. There is no argument there
A lot of the players streaming Classic WoW are competitive. Many of them are top Arena players or Raiders. Some of the other streamers are competitive fps players. Classic WoW PvP lacks any competitive systems or ratings apart from honor grinding in battlegrounds. Nobody wants to watch or stream that. That is why I am devising a World PvP system for Classic WoW. Doing crossrealm Warsong Gulch in 2019 won't hold much interest for long.
Blizzard agrees with me. Look at retail. The PvE is more challenging. The PvP is more competitive. There is no argument there
A lot of the players streaming Classic WoW are competitive. Many of them are top Arena players or Raiders. Some of the other streamers are competitive fps players. Classic WoW PvP lacks any competitive systems or ratings apart from honor grinding in battlegrounds. Nobody wants to watch or stream that. That is why I am devising a World PvP system for Classic WoW.
And the community disagrees which is why Classic has had such incredible success. But, if you agree with Blizzard, retail is there for you. I'd recommend playing that.
Blizzard agrees with me. Look at retail. The PvE is more challenging. The PvP is more competitive. There is no argument there
A lot of the players streaming Classic WoW are competitive. Many of them are top Arena players or Raiders. Some of the other streamers are competitive fps players. Classic WoW PvP lacks any competitive systems or ratings apart from honor grinding in battlegrounds. Nobody wants to watch or stream that. That is why I am devising a World PvP system for Classic WoW.
And the community disagrees which is why Classic has had such incredible success. But, if you agree with Blizzard, retail is there for you. I'd recommend playing that.
Yes I know. While players like you were salivating over The Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King, I was spending thousands of hours on WoW forums and private servers denouncing the expansions and explaining why Classic should be brought back. I've been doing this since 2006. Does that make me insane? Partially. I argued over the direction of Vanilla WoW before TBC was even released. I don't think Classic WoW is a perfect game. I think it is actually more casual than the expansions in many respects. It encourages socialization. However, I do think that some systems like PvP could be improved. Crossrealm battlegrounds will likely do more harm than good. A lot of the appeal there is nostalgia, especially considering AB/WSG/AV have been part of retail ever since. World PvP is the key, since the World is the heart of WoW. I got to test Vanilla WoW a year before it came out. All I did was play the game, argue on the beta forums, and offer feedback. Vanilla WoW was rooted in the design of games like Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot, as well as inspired by the communities that those games created. I saw what Blizzard did once they abandoned all of that. They made the The Burning Crusade, and the MMORPG genre has been cursed ever since.
Yes I know. While players like you were salivating over The Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King, I was spending thousands of hours on WoW forums and private servers denouncing the expansions and explaining why Classic should be brought back. I've been doing this since 2006. Does that make me insane? Partially. I argued over the direction of Vanilla WoW before TBC was even released. I don't think Classic WoW is a perfect game. I think it is actually more casual than the expansions in many respects. It encourages socialization. However, I do think that some systems like PvP could be improved. Crossrealm battlegrounds will likely do more harm than good. A lot of the appeal there is nostalgia, especially considering AB/WSG/AV have been part of retail ever since. World PvP is the key, since the World is the heart of WoW. I got to test Vanilla WoW a year before it came out. All I did was play the game, argue on the beta forums, and offer feedback. Vanilla WoW was rooted in the design of games like Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot, as well as inspired by the communities that those games created. I saw what Blizzard did once they abandoned all of that. They made the The Burning Crusade, and the MMORPG genre has been cursed ever since.
Players like me were having reasonable discussions and playing on private. Discussions that are so reasonable that Blizzard decided to create Classic. Being the crazy guy on the subway screeching at the top of your lungs is no way to promote interest in something regardless if you were right or wrong. Your posts push far more away from your ideas than they do to help build the idea itself. Your approach is awful. Your ideas are poorly thought out. You do a lot more harm than you do good, whether you realize it or not.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.
The only exception to this is the private server streamers who stopped streaming private servers to prep and focus on Classic WoW launch (Esfand, TipsOut & Staysafe). These guys will be streaming Classic WoW for years to come. Others like Asmongold will eventually go back to Retail, or switch back and forth. He was never a private server streamer, he was never fully committed to the vanilla scene.
I don't like TipsOut very much. Staysafe I can handle and I really enjoy watching Esfand. He is skillful, knowledgeable and realistic with expectations in game - while also being quite funny/witty. Asmongold is hit and miss for me. I prefer him when he is being more serious/down to earth (which is typically when he is chatting on someone else's stream rather than his own).
I don't watch them often (Aus timezone vs. USA timezone) but if Esfand or Staysafe stream while I am leveling, I'll put it on the second monitor. They talk about the game, they are on end game content, and they discuss the current meta. It is interesting to see the top end progress guilds and how they are managing their guilds etc.
Edit: Sorry, went off-topic there. I see a lot of hate for most streamers who are tourist/bandwagon streamers - but some streaners are very dedicated to vanilla/classic WoW and that is their long term target audience. Which is players/viewers like myself I guess. I don't want to see streamers playing Retail WoW. I would prefer a completely different game, IRL stream, or just Classic WoW. Personal preference I guess.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.
The only exception to this is the private server streamers who stopped streaming private servers to prep and focus on Classic WoW launch (Esfand, TipsOut & Staysafe). These guys will be streaming Classic WoW for years to come. Others like Asmongold will eventually go back to Retail, or switch back and forth. He was never a private server streamer, he was never fully committed to the vanilla scene.
I don't like TipsOut very much. Staysafe I can handle and I really enjoy watching Esfand. He is skillful, knowledgeable and realistic with expectations in game - while also being quite funny/witty. Asmongold is hit and miss for me. I prefer him when he is being more serious/down to earth (which is typically when he is chatting on someone else's stream rather than his own).
I don't watch them often (Aus timezone vs. USA timezone) but if Esfand or Staysafe stream while I am leveling, I'll put it on the second monitor. They talk about the game, they are on end game content, and they discuss the current meta. It is interesting to see the top end progress guilds and how they are managing their guilds etc.
Edit: Sorry, went off-topic there. I see a lot of hate for most streamers who are tourist/bandwagon streamers - but some streaners are very dedicated to vanilla/classic WoW and that is their long term target audience. Which is players/viewers like myself I guess. I don't want to see streamers playing Retail WoW. I would prefer a completely different game, IRL stream, or just Classic WoW. Personal preference I guess.
Yes, but those streamers pull like 2k viewers. It obvious that Classic WoW will lose interest with most streamers. The question is, is there anyway to keep their interest? Is there something system or mechanic that the game lacked. I am sure Blizzard is asking themselves this. Classic is great, but why don't these streamers want to stay?