I just noticed something else.
> Protection Paladin
> Reasonable taunting
u w0t m8
Isn't one of the things against a prot paladin is the lack of taunts at all? Obviously not the only negative, but definitely on the list is *no taunts*.
Maybe he meant the aoe damage over time spell they have to aoe aggro...not sure if he knows his terms
I mean Taunt is a warrior ability and paladins have none...
EDIT: Reasonable AoE Aggro??? I think i am reaching
Dude, Fury Warrior is the highest dps melee class in the game.
You should burn that thing with fire and scold whoever shared it with you. That's some Fake News level of nonsense.
Okay, so whoever wrote that article from the first link you posted HAS to be straight up trolling.
What the fuck am I even looking at?
Fury Warrior is pretty much among the top 3 best DPS specs for all of Vanilla, so don't worry about that lol.
Also this has to be a troll post. There's zero way this makes any sense. It throws prot warrior and holy priest up there just to give some passing credibility and then just takes the piss the rest of the way down.
Besides the obvious issues here, I love that the "argument" for assassination rogue being c tier in PVE is because they don't bring anything valuable to PVP lol.
One issue in clearing this up was that it was a mixed bag throughout vanilla. Warriors were always a tremendously powerful PvP class, and were initially just okay in PvE as dps, but dual wield fury was a really weak spec. It later got buffs and talent updates, and by the end of vanilla, with better knowledge on itemization and the buffs, fury warrior dps was very strong.
An original WoW developer who was head of class balance said that if not for BC on the horizon, they would have nerfed warrior dps in a later 1.XX patch. It's quite strong. If you go to Wowhead's character planner, and only look at Phase 1 gear, you'll find that much of the gear that is best in slot pre-raid for fury warriors is already in the game, unlike is the case for most other classes, especially casters. Warriors are going to be top notch dps for the entirety of Classic.
That's a good point. I do remember there being a lot of churn back then. That's part of what is going to be weird about classic, no back and forth as classes get buffed and then nerfed into the ground every few months as blizzard flailed around trying to find a class balance. We're gonna be living in a snapshot.
I mean this is my argument in favor of more content added, or at least that people shouldn't dismiss the idea outright. Vanilla WoW existed along a timeline and went through many changes, and we're only getting single, thin slice of it. We're not playing back in the day before Moonkin form existed, or whatever else. And we're not progressing through those earlier patches.
It's important to remember contingency. The game we're getting in classic was contingent on the context of Blizzard's development and ideas at that very moment. It's also important to point out that Kevin Jordan said that many changes to classes would have gone into the game if Blizzard was not pooling lots of changes together to ship with Burning Crusade. Most hybrid class specs were going to be buffed, including prot paladin, and fury warrior dps was going to be nerfed, as previously mentioned. Devs were uncomfortable with the fury warrior out dpsing rogues. They reworked rogue talents in patch 1.11 to help rogues scale a bit better with gear so that warriors did not pass them up in damage as easily, but it wasn't enough.
Besides the obvious issues here, I love that the "argument" for assassination rogue being c tier in PVE is because they don't bring anything valuable to PVP lol.
This is what makes me think its a troll post that was mostly a hodge-podge of lazy copy+pasta. Especially that all rogue specs are in bottom tier. Besides the obvious other stuff.
This is what makes me think its a troll post that was mostly a hodge-podge of lazy copy+pasta. Especially that all rogue specs are in bottom tier. Besides the obvious other stuff.
I've heard crazier shit said on this very forum... There are a large portion of opinionated people who think they know an awful lot about Classic and a good portion of them havent even played the game. Its very strange.
I've heard crazier shit said on this very forum... There are a large portion of opinionated people who think they know an awful lot about Classic and a good portion of them havent even played the game. Its very strange.
There's an argument that suggests because everything about this game is already known, all or most players will be much better this time around. The counter argument is that there is a lot of just bad information out there. And the catch is you'd have to already know better in order to determine what is accurate and what is crap. I think the noise to signal ratio could be pretty bad, resulting in a lot of players being just as bad now as they were back in the original game :lol:
Let's all roll prot pally for their reasonable taunting.
I've heard crazier shit said on this very forum... There are a large portion of opinionated people who think they know an awful lot about Classic and a good portion of them havent even played the game. Its very strange.
There's an argument that suggests because everything about this game is already known, all or most players will be much better this time around. The counter argument is that there is a lot of just bad information out there. And the catch is you'd have to already know better in order to determine what is accurate and what is crap. I think the noise to signal ratio could be pretty bad, resulting in a lot of players being just as bad now as they were back in the original game :lol:
Let's all roll prot pally for their reasonable taunting.
I still think players will be a lot better on average, and there are plentiful guides that, even if some are bad, are still provide more information than a lot of players back then had.
I mean this is my argument in favor of more content added, or at least that people shouldn't dismiss the idea outright. Vanilla WoW existed along a timeline and went through many changes, and we're only getting single, thin slice of it. We're not playing back in the day before Moonkin form existed, or whatever else. And we're not progressing through those earlier patches.
It's important to remember contingency. The game we're getting in classic was contingent on the context of Blizzard's development and ideas at that very moment. It's also important to point out that Kevin Jordan said that many changes to classes would have gone into the game if Blizzard was not pooling lots of changes together to ship with Burning Crusade. Most hybrid class specs were going to be buffed, including prot paladin, and fury warrior dps was going to be nerfed, as previously mentioned. Devs were uncomfortable with the fury warrior out dpsing rogues. They reworked rogue talents in patch 1.11 to help rogues scale a bit better with gear so that warriors did not pass them up in damage as easily, but it wasn't enough.
I was originally in the firm no changes camp a long time ago when classic was first launched. But over the past several months I came around to being open about developing the game into a Classic+ concept. If we just moved onto TBC, then we'd be in the same situation of playing within a static snapshot. The game is a bit more alive when there are small changes taking place.
I'd definitely be open to class rebalancing over time. Minor rebalancing to make some spec viable - like oomkins, prot paladins, ret paladins, etc. I do not want to see all the classes blend together so everybody can heal, every class can tank, specs can be changed on the fly... I don't want any of that, class differentiation and flavor is important and needs to be preserved. I would be open to some of the broken specs being buffed to make them viable though. But at the same time power creep would have to be kept in check too, I don't want content to be nerfed on accident as the character specs get buffed along the way. There's a fine balancing act and the nochanges crowd fears that blizz would get it wrong.
I still think players will be a lot better on average, and there are plentiful guides that, even if some are bad, are still provide more information than a lot of players back then had.
I agree. The average skill will be better. But there's definitely a lot of noise that is going to result in people chasing bad specs and still not quite knowing what they're doing.
I was originally in the firm no changes camp a long time ago when classic was first launched. But over the past several months I came around to being open about developing the game into a Classic+ concept. If we just moved onto TBC, then we'd be in the same situation of playing within a static snapshot. The game is a bit more alive when there are small changes taking place.
I'd definitely be open to class rebalancing over time. Minor rebalancing to make some spec viable - like oomkins, prot paladins, ret paladins, etc. I do not want to see all the classes blend together so everybody can heal, every class can tank, specs can be changed on the fly... I don't want any of that, class differentiation and flavor is important and needs to be preserved. I would be open to some of the broken specs being buffed to make them viable though. But at the same time power creep would have to be kept in check too, I don't want content to be nerfed on accident as the character specs get buffed along the way. There's a fine balancing act and the nochanges crowd fears that blizz would get it wrong.
Yeah. At least for me, most of my changes would be pretty incremental. All I have in mind is some small talent changes to make non-viable specs a bit better (Elemental shaman just needs a mana regen talent and for Nature damage to be included in Curse of Elements, for example), and additional raid content both succeeding Naxx but also succeeding AQ20. It'd be pretty cool if there was a 20 man progression path for a small guild of close friends. UBRS and 5 mans -> ZG ->AQ20 -> New 20 man #1 -> #2
There's a pretty good number of places for these too that were all originally in the old world. Grim Batol is a great example, as are other places later added in Cata, but Blizzard probably had different ideas for initially. Uldum was also intended to be a raid, and there's yee old Dragon Isles which I think Blizzard is finally getting around to using in BFA. And then there were 3 different iterations of Karazhan, and the 3rd version was used for BC, the earlier versions were scrapped, but Kara was originally intended to be part of vanilla.
Overall, I'm very much in favor of Classic+ with another tier or two of 40 man raiding, two more 20 man raids for its own progression path and tiny, small buffs to non-viable specs that may not disrupt play at the high end but will make them far more viable for most players and especially casual players. Heavy deference to changes/content that was originally intended for vanilla and didn't make it in. And guild banks. That's about it.
Yeah. At least for me, most of my changes would be pretty incremental. All I have in mind is some small talent changes to make non-viable specs a bit better (Elemental shaman just needs a mana regen talent and for Nature damage to be included in Curse of Elements, for example), and additional raid content both succeeding Naxx but also succeeding AQ20. It'd be pretty cool if there was a 20 man progression path for a small guild of close friends. UBRS and 5 mans -> ZG ->AQ20 -> New 20 man #1 -> #2
There's a pretty good number of places for these too that were all originally in the old world. Grim Batol is a great example, as are other places later added in Cata, but Blizzard probably had different ideas for initially. Uldum was also intended to be a raid, and there's yee old Dragon Isles which I think Blizzard is finally getting around to using in BFA. And then there were 3 different iterations of Karazhan, and the 3rd version was used for BC, the earlier versions were scrapped, but Kara was originally intended to be part of vanilla.
Overall, I'm very much in favor of Classic+ with another tier or two of 40 man raiding, two more 20 man raids for its own progression path and tiny, small buffs to non-viable specs that may not disrupt play at the high end but will make them far more viable for most players and especially casual players. Heavy deference to changes/content that was originally intended for vanilla and didn't make it in. And guild banks. That's about it.
What was the old UBRS raid size? I know it was at least a 10-man originally, but was it a 15 man? I don't remember anymore. But back in the original game I wasn't raiding, and small group content like 5 man dungeons and even up to the original UBRS was my game. It would be pretty cool if there were a few more small UBRS sized 10/15/20 man raids added in eventually for people going that path. I wouldn't target it to compete with the bigger raids in terms of gear output, but more of an extension of the smaller group content you mentioned. I'm also onboard with adding stuff like Kara and other additional big 40 man raid content. Lots of options to fit within the original framework and design philosophies of the game.
Big problem with a Classic+ concept is everybody seems to want something different. But I keep hearing about how oldschool runescape gates new content by putting it up to a community vote. And they require 75% super majority approval before they even begin developing new stuff. This could be a good mechanism to keep the crap out here too.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, people are going to get bored faster than they think, even if for some people that means years instead of months, and when that time comes, the best solution for adding new content will definitively be putting it up to a community vote.
Okay, so whoever wrote that article from the first link you posted HAS to be straight up trolling.
What the fuck am I even looking at?
Fury Warrior is pretty much among the top 3 best DPS specs for all of Vanilla, so don't worry about that lol.
Protection paladins are S tier? In my experience, paladins are shat on if they're anything except Holy.
and both Arms and Fury warrior were a popular choice and pretty great for Naxxramas, so I don't understand what they're doing at the bottom of the list