For people complaining of boredom: If you want a fresh experience, try playing the game alongside a brand new player and doing things at their pace. This time around my wife and I have been playing, and she is experiencing things for the first time. I have a 30ish druid I play exclusively with her and I am having a blast. It's way more fun than my nearly 50 priest I play when I solo.
This is so true. I introduced a friend who was big into D2 and D3 and other stuff, but had never played WoW before. She's been keeping up pretty good so far and it's been awesome playing next to somebody who is 100% new to the entire thing. Nothing is new to my old jaded eyes, but seeing another person go through everything for the first time is really cool.
Honestly, with the exception of the speedrunners, the people who rushed to 60 to do the same thing they've been doing for 15 years really did themselves a disservice. This was the last time you'll have to capture that nostalgia, and you picked the wrong wave to surf.
There's a lot of nuance to this. There are a lot of players who did come from private servers and there's no nostalgia involved at all. Being at the front of the pack and pushing progression is the entire point of the game for a lot of people. Just because you want to play slow doesn't mean this is the One True Way to play the game. I'm around the same level as you, I'm also ~51 right now and I'm in the same boat as you. I am trying to keep up with the bulk of the playerbase so I can stay where the activity is. I've played a little bit on private servers which are dead in the starting zones, and that is just the nature of Classic servers as they mature. This is a linear game.
Content needs to be released fast enough to keep the progression players interested. As you've already alluded to, the bulk of the playerbase is going to move at a certain pace regardless of how fast the content is released. If somebody is level 50 a good six months after the launch of the game then it's not going to matter whether BWL is released or not. But for everybody who is already through Onyxia and MC, the longer it takes to get to BWL the more those players are going to start dropping off and quitting.
I think there is a lot of sentiment about 'please stop playing so fast, I am having so much fun in Classic and I don't want this to be over too soon'. I know I got a little existential fear where I want to stay in Classic as long as I can because I love the game and don't want it to end. And that's just part of the deal with a game that is carved in stone, no new content, frozen in time. Eventually we run out of things to do. And we want the game to last forever, so it's scary when people are farming raid content within days of it being released. But there's no way around it. Eventually all the content is available, and either the game stagnates, stops being vanilla (new expansions, new content, re-released older expansions, etc), or fresh servers are released so everybody can start over again. I would prefer occasional fresh server releases so every year or two we'd get the chance to start over on that there F R E S H. Because I like Vanilla, and am not really interested in things being changed or anything being added.
But I'm not worrying about this for now. I have no control over the pace of other people. I have control over my own pace. I wanna get into progression as soon as I can and see how far I can get with raiding. And I'll see where that takes me.
This is the whole point that I am making. The strength of Classic is the World itself. All of the zones are populated, because players actually have to level through them. The issue is that eventually more and more players reach level 60, and most of the zones in the game become obsolete. There needed to be more reasons and incentives for max level players to return to these zones.
Man you sound awfully familiar.
So what about these points?
I'm not sure it's a good idea to funnel level 60 characters back into lower level zones on PVP servers. It's already a mess trying to quest outside on my server which has a heavy horde population bias as it is, and that's with zones primarily filled with similar leveled characters. If there were legitimate reasons for level 60s to start roaming around doing stuff in the level 20 zones, everybody who didn't speed level to 60 would get roflstomped into oblivion by all the enemy 60's who were questing next to them.
This also doesn't seem to make sense on PVE servers either. Content for level 60 characters implies appropriate level mobs for level 60 characters to interact with, which implies swaths of level 60 mobs intermixed throughout level 20 zones. As much as I like Stitches and Mor'Ladim in Duskwood, there is a big difference between a couple of mobs 10 levels higher than a player starts a zone for zone flavor vs entire regions of mobs 40 levels higher than when a character starts a zone.
I swear, if the answer involves treasure chests, air drops, or bonus PVP objective zones...
This is the whole point that I am making. The strength of Classic is the World itself. All of the zones are populated, because players actually have to level through them. The issue is that eventually more and more players reach level 60, and most of the zones in the game become obsolete. There needed to be more reasons and incentives for max level players to return to these zones.
Man you sound awfully familiar.
So what about these points?
I'm not sure it's a good idea to funnel level 60 characters back into lower level zones on PVP servers. It's already a mess trying to quest outside on my server which has a heavy horde population bias as it is, and that's with zones primarily filled with similar leveled characters. If there were legitimate reasons for level 60s to start roaming around doing stuff in the level 20 zones, everybody who didn't speed level to 60 would get roflstomped into oblivion by all the enemy 60's who were questing next to them.
This also doesn't seem to make sense on PVE servers either. Content for level 60 characters implies appropriate level mobs for level 60 characters to interact with, which implies swaths of level 60 mobs intermixed throughout level 20 zones. As much as I like Stitches and Mor'Ladim in Duskwood, there is a big difference between a couple of mobs 10 levels higher than a player starts a zone for zone flavor vs entire regions of mobs 40 levels higher than when a character starts a zone.
I swear, if the answer involves treasure chests, air drops, or bonus PVP objective zones...
The world becomes empty as more players hit 60. The 30 or so zones get whittled down to 5 or so. This is because max level content is basically restricted to a few zones. Just like how Outland was. There could have been ways to keep the zones relevant. Your suggestions about air drops and stuff seem offbase, but something needed to be done to keep most of the zones from becoming obsolete.
The world becomes empty as more players hit 60. The 30 or so zones get whittled down to 5 or so. This is because max level content is basically restricted to a few zones. Just like how Outland was. There could have been ways to keep the zones relevant. Your suggestions about air drops and stuff seem offbase, but something needed to be done from keeping most of the zones obsolete.
You are deflecting. You want to turn low-level zones into content for max level characters. How do you address my points about the consequences this brings? How do you resolve adding level 60 mobs and level 60 enemy characters to level 20 leveling zones like the Hillsbrad foothills? Or any low level zone?
The world becomes empty as more players hit 60. The 30 or so zones get whittled down to 5 or so. This is because max level content is basically restricted to a few zones. Just like how Outland was. There could have been ways to keep the zones relevant. Your suggestions about air drops and stuff seem offbase, but something needed to be done from keeping most of the zones obsolete.
You are deflecting. You want to turn low-level zones into content for max level characters. How do you address my points about the consequences this brings? How do you resolve adding level 60 mobs and level 60 enemy characters to level 20 leveling zones like the Hillsbrad foothills? Or any low level zone?
The mobs could be tucked away in certain parts of the zone to not interfere with levelers. There could be random spawns that appear daily or weekly. Why do the best herbs and veins only spawn in high level zones? Why not have them in all contested zones? Why not have endgame quest chains that require players to collect items across all the zones. Why not make the world feel more alive like it did when you were leveling. Instead at 60, you just flyover 80% of the zones. This design decision wasn't just detrimental to the expansions, but to Classic as well. You used to have to travel to Alterac, Ashenvale, and Arathi for BGs. In 1.12 you just teleport into the instance. This design mentality is what doomed WoW. The World is the game. The zones should exist for more reasons than just leveling.
> Why does high level content appear in high level zones?
I didn't ask how you would bring level 60 players into low level zones redridge. I asked how you would resolve the consequences of turning low level questing zones into level 60 content. I'm going to be levelling my warrior and a hunter at some point. I don't want the levelling zones full of roaming level 60s.
> Why does high level content appear in high level zones?
I didn't ask how you would bring level 60 players into low level zones redridge. I asked how you would resolve the consequences of turning low level questing zones into level 60 content. I'm going to be levelling my warrior and a hunter at some point. I don't want the levelling zones full of roaming level 60s.
I agree that having max level players roaming these zones all the time could be trouble on PvP servers. There could be one or two that have max level content and are on rotation however. This would keep max level players active in all the zones at different times.
farming gold and Alliance dogs keeps me busy
Well, my prediction was fucking spot on. Welcome back to the forums RedridgeGnoll/MurlocShapeshifter! We'll have plenty of entertainment now!
I agree that having max level players roaming these zones all the time could be trouble on PvP servers. There could be one or two that have max level content and are on rotation however. This would keep max level players active in all the zones at different times.
That would suck donkey balls. I don't want any level 60's in my low level zones while I'm trying to level. I want level 60 characters to stay in their level 60 zones. Rotating out of different low level zones doesn't change the fact that you're trying to remove low level zones from low level characters.
This also seems of minimal impact in terms of max level content.
> I'm bored at level 60
> Raiding is boring
> Battlegrounds are boring
> I wish I could pick flowers in Hillsbrad on a rotating basis
I mean, if you like herbalism then go collect herbs... If you want to see the low level zones again, come back with a low level character.
I agree that having max level players roaming these zones all the time could be trouble on PvP servers. There could be one or two that have max level content and are on rotation however. This would keep max level players active in all the zones at different times.
That would suck donkey balls. I don't want any level 60's in my low level zones while I'm trying to level. I want level 60 characters to stay in their level 60 zones. Rotating out of different low level zones doesn't change the fact that you're trying to remove low level zones from low level characters.
This also seems of minimal impact in terms of max level content.
> I'm bored at level 60
> Raiding is boring
> Battlegrounds are boring
> I wish I could pick flowers in Hillsbrad on a rotating basis
I mean, if you like herbalism then go collect herbs... If you want to see the low level zones again, come back with a low level character.
The world basically shrinks from 30 to 7 zones once you reach max level. Sound familiar? See Outland or Northrend. This is a design flaw of the game. I am not encouraging level 60's controlling leveling zones and interrupting levelers. I am suggesting that the leveling zones should be something more than just flyover zones. The game lets you just fly over 80% of the world. See Retail. Finding creative ways to reuse leveling zones is so important. Blizzard did this to some extent. Zul'Gurub in STV. AV in Alterac. AB in Arathi Highlands. WSG in Ashenvale. The game needs more of that. Otherwise, you end up with a game where players fly or teleport over most of the world.
The world does not shrink, your character progresses beyond the low level zones as you march on through the game. You never have access to simultaneous relevant content within all 30 zones at any level. I don't have access to EPL at level 1 and I don't expect to be questing in Elwynn at level 60. The game is designed around linear progress flow, and once you reach the maximum level you do activities appropriate for your level. If you wish to re-visit low level content, then you make a new character and progress through that low level content again. I don't expect to be running the Deadmines at level 60 and expect the content to be relevant.
You still haven't come up with a way to deal with funneling large quantities of level 60 characters through low level zones other than 'lol go level somewhere else my weekly air-drop bonus PVP treasure chest spawn is here, Redridge is now level 60 world PVP zone'.
The world does not shrink, your character progresses beyond the low level zones as you march on through the game. You never have access to simultaneous relevant content within all 30 zones at any level. I don't have access to EPL at level 1 and I don't expect to be questing in Elwynn at level 60. The game is designed around linear progress flow, and once you reach the maximum level you do activities appropriate for your level. If you wish to re-visit low level content, then you make a new character and progress through that low level content again. I don't expect to be running the Deadmines at level 60 and expect the content to be relevant.
You still haven't come up with a way to deal with funneling large quantities of level 60 characters through low level zones other than 'lol go level somewhere else my weekly air-drop bonus PVP treasure chest spawn is here, Redridge is now level 60 world PVP zone'.
The state of Azeroth at max level is easy to understand. It is mostly dead. The more players that reach level 60, the emptier the world will become. When you are leveling you have 30 zones to progress through. When you are level 60 you have about 5 zones to progress through. Blizzard designed Azeroth as a questing theme park, where the zones simply existed as quest hubs for players to level through. These design decisions have haunted WoW since Vanilla and helped create the single player experience that is retail. There are many issues that make the World mostly irrelevant at max level. There are so many flight paths that you can basically just fly over almost every zone to reach your destination. It is almost the equivalent of having a flying mount.
There are many ways to bring players back into the leveling zones. When Battlegrounds were released, players had to travel back through these zones in order to participate in battlegrounds. This made the world more dynamic and lively. It didn't destroy the leveling environment for other players in those zones. As I said there needs to be restrictions and limitations, so that max level players do not destroy the leveling content in these zones. I don't understand what you are talking about with air drop bonuses or something, but I do think that there might be some better solutions. Look at Strangelthorn Vale, it is a good example of what I am suggesting. It is one of the most populated leveling zones, but it also attracts max level players with Zul'Gurub and Gurubashi Arena and the Booty Bay Boat. Why do you think WoW was always derided as a theme park? Once you finish a zone you are onto the next one with no reason to ever return. Making the game too reliant on instances began in Vanilla. Retail is all about that now to the point that even the world zones themselves are phased/instanced. You want to make the world feel alive.Tthe world is the heart of the game afterall.
Plaguelands, Silithus, Un'Goro, Azshara, Blackrock Mountain, Winterspring
Add:
-Felwood
-all the regions for iron farming ( arathi, AV, hillsbrad )
-probably other regions for herbalism farming.
-Desolace for Maraudon
-Swamp of sorrows for The Sunken Temple
-Moonglade
-Feralas for Dire Maul
-Stranglethorn for ZG and Arena (and Iron).
-Fishing all around the world
-Cooking mats farming allaround the world
-Pets hunting around the world
-Probably some farming areas in blasted lands
-Onyxia lair in dustwallow marsh
And those are only what comes to my mind in this moment. There are probably plenty others.