The fact that blizzard has to implement fixes to layering shows that the system is badly flawed and is exactly why they should have stuck with sharding low level zones only
The fact that blizzard has to implement fixes to layering shows that the system is badly flawed and is exactly why they should have stuck with sharding low level zones only
Indeed, layering/sharding the starter zones make sense but after that layering seems to create more problems than it solves with how it’s implementation from the beta work.
They are constantly tweaking it however, but I’m not sure I like the idea itself. It’s probably going to be ripe for abuse come release.
I am not at all convinced that Layering will be "turned off" by P2, despite statements to the contrary.
Agreed. Infact it has a FAR smaller chance of being shut off on schedule than running separate servers would. Not that it would matter if they were running separate servers, because so long as these communities boast a healthy population and are not experiencing any of the cons of layering, who cares if they are merged on schedule?!?!
What happens if your megaserver still has 9-10 or 15k players at the end of P1?
Right? A gigantic issue that many people who are pro layering aren't addressing. Even if we can iron out all the wrinkles with layering, what is the chance that Blizzard can make an accurate estimate on the appropriate quantity of layers?!?! This is like finding a needle in a haystack! I certainly couldn't do it. What will be the right amount of layers for one server will be completely different then another server.
I'm also 100% sure 2006 vanilla did not have phasing of any kind, this boundary (in actually map cell) "phasing" is a private server thing since Nostalrius.
It is however possible that some of those clips do indeed show early builds of the classic beta where they were still transitioning from their early plan (Blizzcon beta time) to just shard the early zones to the per-continent layering they ended up with later.
This is actually a common misconception. The game used many forms of phasing in vanilla. Most players think that phasing was introduced in Wrath, which is actually inaccurate. Not only did vanilla wow have border phasing that you would experience when crossing over zones it had various other forms of phasing! I'll give you a few examples... When you are running around as a ghost, able to see other ghosts but not players, this is a form of phasing. When a player is stealthed, the server treats this as phasing and will only allow certain players to see the stealthed target. The server does the same thing for invisible targets (as there is a distinction between stealthed and invisible targets). If you were in a players party in vanilla and had them on follow while in their party, you would be able to cross zone barriers without losing follow. If you were not in their party, you would typically stutter at the border of the phase and lose the follow. The distinction between phasing, sharding and layering is very subtle... Even a player with the wealth of knowledge that you have are capable of misidentifying phasing and layering as was seen in your previous post. Phasing was used during Vanilla and BC but wasn't used to its full potential until Wrath when Blizzard coined the term and changed their usage of the tool.
I spent a lot of time searching on warcraft movies and youtube for a source showing players phase as they swapped zones (or the contrary) but couldn't unfortunately. After reading through dozens of old articles and watching a ton of videos I cant validate this info, sorry in advance. If you have any info that suggests otherwise and are able to find a source I would be very interested in seeing it. Though through other clear examples, we can still confirm that Vanilla did have forms of phasing.
The fact that blizzard has to implement fixes to layering shows that the system is badly flawed and is exactly why they should have stuck with sharding low level zones only
For me its mostly a time sensitive issue. Any new implementation is bound to have issues. Betas are designed to address issues. I had anticipated that layering would have a ton of foreseeable issues and I had hoped that those issues would be addressed. My main concern is the deadline. If we have less than 60 days until launch, what is Blizzards deadline to implement changes to layering? We have to assume they are creeping up on their last few days of development. For this same reason I also don't advocate for temporary sharding or dynamic respawns, while either of these would have been better solutions to the issue it is FAR too late to consider them now. We have enough time for two options... Go with layering in its current state with a few more bandaids before launch OR separate realms. I think the choice is pretty clear.
Though, they have invested a TON into layering so I doubt that they will be willing to scrap it. It isn't hard to see why either... As the Classic team you had one job. You had to reproduce an old game as accurate to its original form as you possibly could. This was a restoration project. From a design perspective you had ONE implementation during the entire course of vanilla; launch day. You had several choices, most of which had been used with success in the past, you had ONE JOB!!! You had to make a launch decision, sharding, dynamic respawns, nothing, layering, separate servers and then implement it... Their ONE design responsibility. They chose layering (which is a valid choice - not the one I would have went with, but valid) and then they implemented it horribly. Just based on the human ego, abandoning your one exclusive design implementation would be tough. As critical as I am towards the team in regards to layering, I would probably struggle abandoning the only fingerprint I had on Classic as well. How do you even justify that to your superiors? Ughh... "Yeah all that time we spent on layering? Yea, we want to scrap that and just go with the old school seperate servers, turns out layering was awful for EVERY reason that was super predictable - Sorry". That would be brutal. We will likely get layering, for better or worse.
Found this little nugget from Kevin Jordan today. Ex vanilla wow designer
https://clips.twitch.tv/ResilientAmericanDolphinSoonerLater
Have recently been watching a lot of this guys content. The difference in knowledge and common sense from some of these OG devs is what lead to them designing a great game. Take the right people with the right mindset and let them build a game. You could get these guys to make any MMO and they would produce greatness. They just seem to get it. It seems so simple...
Have recently been watching a lot of this guys content
I used my twitch prime subscription on him, he is very down to earth. I don't often get to catch his streams live, as an Australian, but I do like his content.
Layering has issues, but it is the weapon of choice that Blizzard are utilising for launch, at this point it's about trying to mitigate and fix the main issues and manage the transition to layerless correctly. Hopefully this happens, is there any more recent testing/news on this? I haven't been watching any beta streamers or highlights lately.
You could get these guys to make any MMO and they would produce greatness.
God please yes. Kevin Jordan, Mark Kern, John Staats please get together and make a new MMO :biggrin:
I used my twitch prime subscription on him, he is very down to earth. I don't often get to catch his streams live, as an Australian, but I do like his content.
I don't even have a twitch account. I usually watch reuploads on youtube or clips directly from channels... I should probably setup an account and use my amazon prime sub. I've always felt a little too old for twitch being 29, but a lot of new streamers are popping up that seem to be producing real quality content.
Layering has issues, but it is the weapon of choice that Blizzard are utilising for launch, at this point it's about trying to mitigate and fix the main issues and manage the transition to layerless correctly. Hopefully this happens, is there any more recent testing/news on this? I haven't been watching any beta streamers or highlights lately.
Without a doubt. We will be getting layering unfortunately as I think most of us accepted a few months back. I haven't seen any specific information that moves the conversation forward. A lot of chit chat from both camps, fear mongering clips from the anti layering side who often misrepresent phasing and layering and start to screech whenever anything disappears on their screen and then a lot of pro layering from the other side who dont seem to understand the implications the system has.
God please yes. Kevin Jordan, Mark Kern, John Staats please get together and make a new MMO :biggrin:
In our dreams. Hahaha. If I ever win a mega jackpot, I'll do my best to make this happen for the betterment of humanity.
You probably already heard, but Mark is actually working on EM8ER(ember) https://www.em8er.com/
Not a whole lot of information about the project but I am excited to see how it turns out.
edit for description of game from the site: "The battle style of Planetside, with a dash of Monster Hunter. The Gatestriders lost their homeworld. They wandered space, opening gates to unknown worlds, until they finally found one they could reclaim as their own: the planet designated Em-8ER. This icy, yet volcanic planet is rich in resources, perfect for colonizing and crafting a new world. Played as a 1st and 3rd person mecha shooter with fast action, Em-8ER is a co-op game pitting hundreds of players against an invading NPC horde of aliens in a massive war. "
I was super excited about the project when I saw "planetside" mentioned but there has been no confirmation of any PvP in the game. If it has no PvP I probably would not be interested.
I've always felt a little too old for twitch being 29
So did I initially, but I think you just have to be selective about your content, and then it's perfectly fine. I use it to basically just watch Esfand and Kevin Jordan. Esfand for more comedy/antics and Kevin Jordan for a laid back down to earth view on the World (of Warcraft).
You probably already heard, but Mark is actually working on EM8ER(ember) https://www.em8er.com/
Yeh after he was on ClassiCast I checked out some of his past and present projects. I never got hugely into the 'Mech' scene, although I would obviously try it out if possible, just to see what kind of game he is looking to create - he seems to be pretty switched on.
Just delete layering.
Just delete layering.
:lol: agreed
Just delete layering.
:lol: agreed
Layering will eventually be deleted. It's clear it's in place to avoid PR outrage when 20 realms have to get merged 3 months down the line.