In my mind.
Forfeiture of any gains should be automatic no matter how long.
I really hope it was worth it for all those who found it justified to abuse layering because they didn't agree with the system, or were simply willing to use any exploit available to get an early advantage.
This will probably kill off a lot of those high end guilds that were actively abusing the system.
Good decision by blizzard, interested to see the full coverage of the bans. Players were blatant and open about their exploitation, e.g. Skarm.
You build a system that was designed to be abused and then ban people for abusing it? Meh. I'll keep you boys posted. I may be rerolling shortly, but if my guess is right, Blizz will only issue bans to the biggest offenders or those who left evidence of them committing the act. We'll see how good their system is at tracking your boss kills etc.
You build a system that was designed to be abused and then ban people for abusing it? Meh. I'll keep you boys posted. I may be rerolling shortly, but if my guess is right, Blizz will only issue bans to the biggest offenders or those who left evidence of them committing the act. We'll see how good their system is at tracking your boss kills etc.
No system in this world, related to anything, is immune to exploitation and abuse. Abuse literally means misuse. I can abuse a pen, the health care system, a game etc.
I hope the bans will be strong. Out of respect for us honest farming folk.
No system in this world, related to anything, is immune to exploitation and abuse. Abuse literally means misuse. I can abuse a pen, the health care system, a game etc.
I hope the bans will be strong. Out of respect for us honest farming folk.
But this abuse was predictable. As was said by the community. There were other superior systems available. The abuse that is occurring now, is the same abuse that was present during the beta and stress tests. Blizzard hotfixes are months and months behind the initial instances of abuse.
Blizz during layering announcement: This is Layering
Community in response: We will abuse layering.
Community on stress tests and beta: abuses layering and posts it to Blizz
Blizz in response to beta: its not as bad as people say
Community during initial Classic launch: we're still doin it, and its REALLY GOOD
Blizz in response: we assure you its not that bad
Blizz the next day: patches layering.
Community: but we can still abuse layering...
Its just... A really really delayed response to the predictable abuse that is the result of a system that is inherently bad.
It would be nice longer than a month, but a month for the people who committed the exploit is almost the same than a larger period for them, but hey if they catch them all and remove their gold and items that's fine. A plus would be removing the xp from those who abused layering for leveling.
No system in this world, related to anything, is immune to exploitation and abuse. Abuse literally means misuse. I can abuse a pen, the health care system, a game etc.
I hope the bans will be strong. Out of respect for us honest farming folk.
But this abuse was predictable. As was said by the community. There were other superior systems available. The abuse that is occurring now, is the same abuse that was present during the beta and stress tests. Blizzard hotfixes are months and months behind the initial instances of abuse.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but i fully disagree that the people abusing are justified; especially doing it so brazenly.
Predictable abuse is not justifiable abuse.
Speeding is a predictable abuse. Try justifying it that way to a cop, see how far it gets you.
I just really hope they get them all and not a small portion of the exploiters.
I am very worried that being a casual player that is currently only level 32 is now going to be really really far behind everyone and the end game advantage that a lot of players have now is going to be silly.
There is no way the economy can come back from this, surely?
No system in this world, related to anything, is immune to exploitation and abuse. Abuse literally means misuse. I can abuse a pen, the health care system, a game etc.
I hope the bans will be strong. Out of respect for us honest farming folk.
But this abuse was predictable. As was said by the community. There were other superior systems available. The abuse that is occurring now, is the same abuse that was present during the beta and stress tests. Blizzard hotfixes are months and months behind the initial instances of abuse.
Blizz during layering announcement: This is Layering
Community in response: We will abuse layering.
Community on stress tests and beta: abuses layering and posts it to Blizz
Blizz in response to beta: its not as bad as people say
Community during initial Classic launch: we're still doin it, and its REALLY GOOD
Blizz in response: we assure you its not that bad
Blizz the next day: patches layering.
Community: but we can still abuse layering...
Its just... A really really delayed response to the predictable abuse that is the result of a system that is inherently bad.
What a ridiculous argument. Locks are pickable in real life and people can say "your locks are pickable, we will break in" - but if you break in its still illegal. You intentionally abused a system, bragged about it, and were proud of it. If a thief does the same and is caught they are jailed. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should just to prove a point.
What else could you apply this logic to? If you're punished, it's deserved. You cannot blame blizzard for any of this, your actions were intentional and malicious. If you take it on the chin and reroll and don't complain, very good. It doesn't undo your actions, but at least you won't be blaming someone else for your own actions.
What else could you apply this logic to? If you're punished, it's deserved. You cannot blame blizzard for any of this, your actions were intentional and malicious. If you take it on the chin and reroll and don't complain, very good. It doesn't undo your actions, but at least you won't be blaming someone else for your own actions.
This is the issue... This is a perspective based argument. What is malicious? At what point should you not violate layering? Is it okay to get an invite to find a rare spawn or an escort? What about to avoid a gank? How about to avoid being camped after the gank? Why not do it to farm some herbs...? How about making thousands of gold in dungeons... How about for a potential raid drop?
Everyone will have their limit, but the system itself is broken. Most players have used layering to gain an advantage at one point or another, or at the very least a significant portion of the userbase has... At what point does this behavior become "malicious". If you ask 10 people, you will get 10 different responses. I treat layering just as I treat gear optimization or any other facet of the game. It exists within the world and I manipulate as best as I can to gain an advantage in a competitive environment. Blizz designed layering, not me. The onus is NOT on the playerbase to self-regulate and police themselves. If a system is put in a game and you can manipulate that system within the game, you should manipulate it. Eventually, if it truly is an exploit, it will be fixed. Layering in its current state, has not been removed, it has simply been moderated. We now know that abusing layering within the confines of a dungeon is considered an exploit, which was not outlined before the recent bans. HOWEVER, all of the other instances of layer abuse are A-OKAY. Therefore, I will continue to abuse layering. My abuse of layering to farm a lot of devilsaur leather was okay. My abuse of the system to get rare spawns and escort quests was okay. My abuse to avoid ganks was okay... There is no consistency in their moderation or implementation of layering. The people who are abusing the system are at an advantage. A minority will be punished, the rest will profit. Everyone who avoided abusing layering, simply stunted their own growth within the game.
The onus is NOT on the playerbase to self-regulate and police themselves. If a system is put in a game and you can manipulate that system within the game, you should manipulate it.
You have an extremely warped sense of reality. Good luck to you in your endeavours.
Nobody thinks of themself as the bad guy. Yet bad guys exist. If these posts are necessary to justify your behaviour to yourself, keep it up. You wont convince anyone else though.
1 month + item wipe sounds good for the category of players using the exploit to get a gear advantage for their own characters.
But I wouldn't be sad about perma bans for the players who pushed the whole thing too far...bunkering mats, gold, AH spam and so on.
If these posts are necessary to justify your behaviour to yourself, keep it up. You wont convince anyone else though.
I think you hit the nail on the head here.