why the hell do they not cap the servers? Layering sound as bad as phasing in Mop were you could not see player if they did not do certain quests.
Because they want to start with as few realms as possible.
The goal is that when the tourist hype of the first few weeks dies off and layers will be turned off, every realm still is packed with a healthy population.
I'm not entirely convinced of layering - there WILL be ways to exploit it - but if it's an necessary evil to guarantee healthy realm pop in the long run, I guess I'm ok with it.
Nothing would suck harder than to level up to 60, grind pre-BiS and then find out you're server isn't going to make it because everyone flocks to a more healthy realm.
A good thing if they get the numbers right, but it is going to be guesswork on Blizzard's part. How can they know how many day 1 players will be there in a month or 3 months? Sharding will give them a buffer but once the tourists are gone any one of those servers could still massively overpopulated. And what is the solution then? continue sharding? transfers? Queues?
Blizzard could be setting themselves up for a massive clusterfuck when phase 2 rolls around.
Nothing would suck harder than to level up to 60, grind pre-BiS and then find out you're server isn't going to make it because everyone flocks to a more healthy realm.
This can happen in every scenario. If your Realm is almost dead or to inactive for you then the server transfer is ready to be used. There will be Horde, Alli, PVE, PvP hardcore servers like back then.
How will guilds work with this? Will you be able to invite anyone on your layering or will you have to go around and look for players who are on your realm? If they are just from your guild then you're never gonna run into your guild mates in the wild, and it just feels like there's no reason for interaction when you're probably never gonna see that player again after you log out. All the server identity will be lost but I hope phase 2 will bring it to life, when layering will be over.
Yeah IF and OG will be really interesting with the layering.
People are being super dramatic over this, I think with a couple of safeguards to reduce abuse of the system it could be fine. People just need to chill and see how it pans out, it's going to be ok guys!
Here is an interview with a couple of the developers where they go more in depth on what the layering is:
I am personally a fan of what they are doing, and think it makes a lot of sense.
Here is an interview with a couple of the developers where they go more in depth on what the layering is:
I am personally a fan of what they are doing, and think it makes a lot of sense.
here with timestamp:
https://youtu.be/jYuUD0o-Nz8?t=233
Cry more
Layering will only be used for a couple of weeks or maybe a month at the start of Classic WoW.
I hope they stick to their words...
Yes there are some obvious problems with Layering when it comes to resources, rares etc. And it will still not fix the launch starting problem zerg, 3k in a layer is like 500ppl/starting zone still...This would mean massive queues or much smaller layers at the start
I dont like it, but if it goes live I really hope it don't last more then a few weeks
People are being super dramatic over this, I think with a couple of safeguards to reduce abuse of the system it could be fine. People just need to chill and see how it pans out, it's going to be ok guys!
I dont think anyone here is proposing this is the doom of Classic or being overly dramatic... Its fairly obvious that launch will be an issue and that SOMETHING has to be done... My concern is that it (layering) simply isnt the best solution for the problem.
Layering can and will be used and abused by players. It impacts more than just the starting zones. It has a far greater impact on the game than dynamic respawns do. My only opposition to dynamic respawns is that mobs are respawning at an increased rate based on the amounts of players in the area... This can cause unpreventable deaths due to overcrowded mob density and can be used to farm gold/xp quicker... Layering however separates a server into gigantic shards... Meaning you have multiple shards (or layers - this term can and should be used interchangeably) of ungoro allowing a server to farm twice as much leather without experiencing the same competition... Twice as many tidal shards dropping from a rare mob... And this is only if your server has two layers. Remember, this shard/layer is WORLDWIDE. Meaning that if my server has 4000 players, and I am in the second shard, I am presumably with 1000 other players... Now lets assume I level ahead of the pack (or am significantly behind the pack) the world will be VERY empty. Unlike sharding which is confined to small pockets layering is actually worldwide... Which in my opinion, will make the world feel even more separate and isolated for those who find themselves on a low population layer.
An example of how layering can/will work is in retail... You go to a rare spawn or quest location. If the mob isnt there you join a group finder and request an invite... Without the group system (which may be added in the form of an addon) you can still cycle through your friends list or guild for invites to quickly cycle through layers. This WILL be used as a means to run from pvp engagements. Im not in a favorable fight? A quick invite phases me away. No more being camped in world pvp. This WILL be used to get escort quests and rare spawn tags... Nessingwarys camp is currently being camped by the horde? A quick message in general chat asking if someone has a horde free nessy layer and BAM youre in a new layer and can avoid pvp. This has a pretty large implication on the game to be honest. I'm typically not an alarmist, but this will absolutely change how the game is played... What about the aoe mage who finds a fairly secluded grind spot??? Do a full pull, aoe it all down, and grab a friend invite to immediately reset the mobs by jumping to another layer. You can start to see how this will have a dramatic impact on the game. The simple truth is that we already have a solution to launch... Dynamic respawns. Dynamic respawns are not a great solution, but compared to layering the world, they seem like the obvious choice.
It will be helpful to have some more clarity around how layering is going to be implemented. How will the algorithm determine the number of players per layer as new players log off and on, and as the days and weeks go by? What are the limits around how often one can transition to different layers when receiving invites to groups, and in order to prevent farming of limited resources across multiple layers? Will the 3001st player be alone in a new layer, or will the layers be merged and split dynamically from time to time to more evenly distribute layer populations?
Temporary sharding or layering are both imperfect solutions to a problem that there is no perfect solution for. However, in my personal opinion, both sharding and layering, if temporary, are superior solutions to playing Vanilla on private servers, superior to having a launch experience that involves hundreds of people fighting for one mob, and superior to increasing the number of realms or adding queues to deal with the initial volume only to later end up with underpopulated servers that require merging or transfers as populations dwindle.
I will give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt. They will take my money and I will deal with the Phase 1 layering.
I dont think anyone here is proposing this is the doom of Classic or being overly dramatic...
Yep. This breaks it for me. Every zone is effectively sharded. I won't be playing classic if this goes live
The simple truth is that we already have a solution to launch... Dynamic respawns. Dynamic respawns are not a great solution, but compared to layering the world, they seem like the obvious choice.
I don't think dynamic respawns is the best solution, especially since I think this will have just as dramatic, if not more dramatic impact on the economy. Especially players who get ahead of the curve, they can really take advantage of dynamic respawns to abuse gold farming or similar. You have to remember that there is probably only going to be 2-3 layers for your continent at peak times, so it's not like you can just hop about willy nilly between 30 phases like you can in retail with their bullshit sharding. I think Blizzard will be testing it during all 3 stress tests and finding ways to limit the exploitation and have safeguards in place. Again, I think people need to just take a step back - there is over 3 months before this is being implemented at launch, they have plenty of time to fine tune and provide specifics on how it will work.
I don't think dynamic respawns is the best solution, especially since I think this will have just as dramatic, if not more dramatic impact on the economy. Especially players who get ahead of the curve, they can really take advantage of dynamic respawns to abuse gold farming or similar. You have to remember that there is probably only going to be 2-3 layers for your continent at peak times, so it's not like you can just hop about willy nilly between 30 phases like you can in retail with their bullshit sharding. I think Blizzard will be testing it during all 3 stress tests and finding ways to limit the exploitation and have safeguards in place. Again, I think people need to just take a step back - there is over 3 months before this is being implemented at launch, they have plenty of time to fine tune and provide specifics on how it will work.
How? Instead of mobs increasing respawn at a rate appropriate to the players around them, we will be seeing full fledged duplicates of the world... If I am a devilsaur farming team of 5 players, I could simultaneously farm 2-3 Ungoro Craters at the same time... If I am a frost mage farming a secluded pack of mobs solo, I can do a run, get an invite to phase hop and immediately reset the mobs... The implications layering has are INSANE. They are especially insane if speedrunners can find a way to consistently manipulate the layer, which based on what we know, doesnt sound hard (a simple group invite). In terms of economy, layering is definitively more impactful than dynamic respawns... By a fairly wide margin.
"Especially players who get ahead of the curve, they can really take advantage of dynamic respawns"... Dynamic respawns increase the spawn rate based on the players in a given cell... Players who are ahead of the curve arent benefiting from dynamic respawns. This is why it is referred to as "dynamic". The respawn value is altered to accommodate the player populace in a given cell. If you are ahead of all the other players or alone in a low populated cell, the spawn rate of mobs is decreased to match the populace of that cell.
"2-3 layers for your continent at peak times, so it's not like you can just hop about willy nilly between 30 phases like you can in retail with their bullshit sharding." You only need two layers for it to count. Lets assume you are grinding water elementals at 0200hrs. No one else is there. The only thing limiting your ability to farm elementals is their respawn time... Being that youre the only one in the field, you arent benefiting from dynamic respawns HOWEVER, with layering, you can just get friends or guildies just send invites to shift through the layers each time you do a lap. In this circumstance you have mobs up 100% of the time instead of having prolonged periods of downtime waiting for respawns. Now you are not limited by respawns at all, rather your kill speed.
"Again, I think people need to just take a step back - there is over 3 months before this is being implemented." This was just announced and were all just talking about Classic. If there is any time to voice our discontent for a proposed change, its during its announcement rather than claiming hindsight after the fact. To be completely honest, Blizzard could take a dump in a paper bag and write "Clazzik" on the front of it with a permanent marker, and I'd be preordering the collectors edition hahahaha... Due to the announcement of layering, its worth talking about.
I've played retail with sharding for years and still do. I've played private on several major servers with dynamic respawns and still do. As someone who has experience both, they both have major drawbacks but layering, as it has been proposed is actually the worst option of the three in my opinion.