How many layers are you expecting, with all this shifting in and out with your buddies to get rare spawns? With three layers each with 3,000 players, do you really think you will be able to exploit it as easily as you think? It's not like phasing or sharding where you can just create bunches of phases depending on how many people are in that local area and cross realms and all sorts of bullshit. You don't think that there will be competition for devilsaurs with 3,000 players in 3 different layers? Do you really expect to have some magical empty layers that only your friends are in?
I don't know dude, I think this 'problem' is being blown way out of proportion. I completely agree that the issue needs to be discussed and sorted out and I have mentioned that previously. There is time to sort this out (again, like I mentioned previously). I am not saying "shut up and just wait" I'm saying "chill, we have time to find out details and see what safeguards/loopholes are in the system".
How many layers are you expecting, with all this shifting in and out with your buddies to get rare spawns? With three layers each with 3,000 players, do you really think you will be able to exploit it as easily as you think? It's not like phasing or sharding where you can just create bunches of phases depending on how many people are in that local area and cross realms and all sorts of bullshit. You don't think that there will be competition for devilsaurs with 3,000 players in 3 different layers? Do you really expect to have some magical empty layers that only your friends are in?
Yes. This right here. I can see there being maybe 2-3 layers per realm if 3K is the cap per? Hardly a resource farm fest. I don't think they're going for super high levels of populations that will require half a dozen or more layers across realms. Besides, the Devilsaur Mafia was a thing in Vanilla, so it's not like you can't have groups of players trying to monopolize resources even if we toss layer mechanics out the window. Some people are into the farming aspect of the game, and they will indeed try to take advantage of this to make an extra buck, but I don't think an additional layer or two will massively impact their fortunes such that we'll have a bunch of little Jeff Bezos' of Azeroth running around and destroying the economy of Classic.
Saying you won't play WoW classic because of layering for the first phase is like saying you won't have sex because you have to wear a condom for the first 2 minutes.
Listening to the devs talk about how it works and doing research on it makes a lot of sense and is quite the improvement to sharding. If you think Blizzard is going to let people abuse/exploit this in some way without punishment you are mistaken. It's not like they will release this game and just walk away. They will be watching everything. Anyone who is leveling abnormally fast will be watched, believe that.
This is still going to be a fantastic game. Don't let those fools over on the Blizzard forums spin you into a hysteria over speculation.
How many layers are you expecting, with all this shifting in and out with your buddies to get rare spawns? With three layers each with 3,000 players, do you really think you will be able to exploit it as easily as you think?
Yes. I think it will be very easy. In a guild of 50-100 people, as all guilds will boast massive player counts during the boom of players on launch, with access to general chat (when ALL 3k players are confined to about 4-5 zones so youre always talking to 1/4 of the playerbase) and then your friends list - I think it will be VERY very very... tremendously easy to manipulate. Based on what theyve told us, its as easy as an invite to manipulate and the reward is well worth the effort.
"It's not like phasing or sharding where you can just create bunches of phases depending on how many people are in that local area" Its actually easier. because once you are in a lower pop phase you have consistently lower competition. The layer isnt fixed to a specific zone, oh no, youre entire experience is on that phase at lower competition and if it serves you, you will be able to change that layer with the click of a button so you also get the advantage of shifting phases only you are in full control of those shifts.
"You don't think that there will be competition for devilsaurs with 3,000 players in 3 different layers?" I think there will be less competition in a layer containing 3k players, than in a world with 12k with dynamic respawns... A lot less. Consider You are in the first batch of 60's. Lets say the top 10% of levelers? With dynamic respawns there are about 300 people at 60... not all of them in Ungoro and not a lot of competition for devilsaurs on the first 2 weeks. With layers... Those same 10% of players now have have access to several layers ALL containing devilsaurs. In this circumstance, not enough players would be in Ungoro to have anywhere near the devilsaur spawns these guys are getting. That only affects the top 10% though right? Nope. This will determine your devilsaur prices for months to come. Just one of many examples where layering will have a tremendous impact compared to dynamic respawns.
"I don't know dude, I think this 'problem' is being blown way out of proportion." Again, we're just talking here. No one is signing a petition to burn down Classic or starting a riot... Were just talking. Its okay to have different opinions... Thats why I'm here! Talking to myself about Classic got pretty stale.
"There is time to sort this out" I think they are going with layering whether we like it or not. Layering is a solution to a problem that needs to be addressed. The point here is just to have a casual discussion about the announcement of layering. Not condemning Blizzard and not starting fires in the streets.
"chill, we have time to find out details and see what safeguards/loopholes are in the system" The system is pretty straightforward. Each layer contains 3k players. Players who invite others bring them into their layer. Players can change layers as often as they want to.. Its a pretty simple solution to the problem. One of 4 potential solutions as far as I see it...
Solution 1: Cap servers at 3-4k... Obviosuly a bad idea for Classic launch with a ton of temporary tourists.
Solution 2: Sharding (temporarily as originally proposed AND confined to starting zones) My favorite option as we have not seen how this compares to dynamic respawns.
Solution 3: Dynamic respawns. Huge drawbacks but also capable of allowing upwards of 12k players to participate on one server without any phasing/layering.
Solution 4: Layering
Of the options that have been proposed im a strong proponent of dynamic respawns (tried, tested and true) and the potential of sharding temporarily and only in the intial start zones, as was originally proposed. Layering seems like a very awful alternative to what options we currently have.
Honestly, I think it will be ok. But like you say, we're just talking because otherwise we'd just argue with ourselves!
:lol:
You guys seem to misunderstand.
I understand something is going to be needed in the first little bit to deal with the masses.
I just do not think effectively sharding the ENTIRE WORLD is the solution.
It is rife with the potential for abuse and exploitation.
I would be fine with them sharding 1 to 10. Maybe up to 20 if need be, but blizzard themselves admitted 90% of characters made in vanilla never made it past level 10.
Food for thought.
You going to play Classic still Instinctz, or is layering a deal breaker? That would be a shame having had to wait 14 years for Classic! :surprised:
I figure it will be in game for max 2 months. I expect the bulk of the lifespan of classic WoW to be 2.5 years. 2.5 years is 30 months. That means that only 6.66% of your playtime is potentially impacted by layering. I think you should try to wait it out and see if you can make it through Phase 1, you wouldn't want to miss out on Classic launch and then playing through it with everyone because of something we only know minor details about!
Just saw this one posted to Classic WoW subreddit.
I think people are overreacting over the fact that layering will be implemented. Servers with long-term healthy populations are needed, and on launch the swarm of people demands a certain type of isolation. This solves both imo.
The communication from Blizzard was not clear and precise enough, I agree but this system sounds much better than sharding.
You will never be able to meet a player from another server (realm) and never see them again.
Guildmates are preferred to be put on the same layer. Friends that you play with are likely to be in the same guild as you.
If you group up with someone outside your layer, you will be transferred to that layer permanently until you group up with another player who is outside your layer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/bows9y/sharding_versus_layering/
The problem with that image is that it confuses sharding with cross-realm, which are two entirely separate things. Sharding separates players when there's too many in a zone. Cross-realm puts players together when there isn't enough. They serve the exact opposite purpose. Cross-realm appears like sharding, which is why people often confuse the two.
That's why Nicholaes on reddit created a more accurate image in response.
It still makes some assumptions, but the general gist of it is there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/bp1g0p/sharding_vs_layering_fixed/
Except thats wrong. With sharding you could have much more then the 3k cap. Shard the 1 to 20 zones to deal with the tourists and it would do just what layering wants to do.
WITHOUT AFFECTING WORLD PVP.
WITHOUT AFFECTING RARE RESOURCES.
Sharding would give you the same benefits as layering.
WITHOUT affecting high level zones.
Except thats wrong. With sharding you could have much more then the 3k cap. Shard the 1 to 20 zones to deal with the tourists and it would do just what layering wants to do.
I agree. Before we got the news about layering, that's what I thought Blizzard would use sharding for: to have higher than normal population caps as a temporary measure. But they opted for layering instead.
We may appeal to our feelings and opinions all we want, but Blizzard does have the statistics, and statistics don't care about how we feel, or what we think - it only shows the truth. If I remember correctly, the statistics were that 70% of players don't make it past level 10. Whether we have sharding or layering, it might not make much of a difference; the population will be high at the start, but drop significantly by the end of the starting zones. There might be only one or two layers per server by the end of the first month.
Disgusting. This is worse than sharding. No one should be happy about this. Part of the fun of playing at release is seeing tons and tons of people everywhere having fun.
Disgusting. This is worse than sharding. No one should be happy about this. Part of the fun of playing at release is seeing tons and tons of people everywhere having fun.
Can you elaborate more on how is layering worse than sharding? I was under impression that it is actually better solution.
Also I am a guy who really doesnt see anything good on overcrowded starting zones where you are unable to complete pretty much anything.
Disgusting. This is worse than sharding. No one should be happy about this. Part of the fun of playing at release is seeing tons and tons of people everywhere having fun.
Can you elaborate more on how is layering worse than sharding? I was under impression that it is actually better solution.
Also I am a guy who really doesnt see anything good on overcrowded starting zones where you are unable to complete pretty much anything.
Because the plan was to shard low level zones only which would not impact world PvP or the rarity of stuff like black lotus and thorium.
Instead, we are going to shard every zone instead.
Instinctz, maybe just hold off until phase 2 to start playing? It seems like you won't enjoy it even one tiny bit, and everyone will be exploiting constantly, so probably better you wait.
:cool: