RedridgeGnoll I do agree in principal about horizontal vs. vertical progression, but like I said earlier I don't think it is needed for a long time, and also probably isn't wanted by a lot of the community - which causes a lot of unwanted headaches for Blizzard.
@RedridgeGnoll I do agree in principal about horizontal vs. vertical progression, but like I said earlier I don't think it is needed for a long time, and also probably isn't wanted by a lot of the community - which causes a lot of unwanted headaches for Blizzard.
I know, but I am convinced players are going to burnout faster this time around. A lot of popular games nowadays are constantly updated and patched. Even the BFA crowd will breeze through much of Classic if they remain active. I worry Blizzard will shorten the phases and release the later raid content too soon.
What do you think of horizontal gear progression using different set bonuses that change talents or abilities. The attributes wouldn't necessarily determine the value of raid sets, because they would have a variety of set bonuses that change your playstyle.
Compare Nightslayer vs Bloodfang
Tier 1 Rogue Nightslayer
3 pieces: Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish ability by 30 sec.
5 pieces: Increases your maximum Energy by 10.
8 pieces: Heals the rogue for 500 when Vanish is performed.
Tier 2 Rogue Bloodfang
(3) Set : Increases the chance to apply poisons to your target by 5%.
(5) Set : Improves the threat reduction of Feint by 25%.
(8) Set : Gives the Rogue a chance to inflict 283 to 317 damage on the target and heal the Rogue for 50 health every 1 sec. for 6 sec. on a melee hit.
Bloodfang gives pretty similar attributes, but the gear set bonuses are wildly different. This gives players an option to wear either set or combined them for set bonuses. This is the kind of horizontal progression I am talking about. You could have multiple T1 and T2 sets with varying set bonuses.
For example. a new T2 mage raid set called Hypnotic Regalia.
3 pieces: increases duration of polymorph by 10%.
5 pieces: Improved counterspell disarms the target
8 pieces: Arcane Power spells now do splash damage in a 50 yard radius.
It's just a bit too triggering for the #nochanges part of me I guess. Like I said, if it is introduced on a mirrored server as Classic+ then sure, why not.
It's just a bit too triggering for the #nochanges part of me I guess. Like I said, if it is introduced on a mirrored server as Classic+ then sure, why not.
How will Classic WoW grow and stay relevant without new content then?
How will Classic WoW grow and stay relevant without new content then?
It' a recreation of a 15 year old game, there is no 'staying relevant'. The only growing that Classic WoW will do, is via the community and the player based events and interactions. The entire purpose for Classic is to simply recreate and immortalize the Vanilla WoW time.
How will Classic WoW grow and stay relevant without new content then?
By continuing to do what they are doing. Rereleasing old content. Classic BC. Classic WotLK. They arent reinventing the wheel.
How will Classic WoW grow and stay relevant without new content then?
It' a recreation of a 15 year old game, there is no 'staying relevant'. The only growing that Classic WoW will do, is via the community and the player based events and interactions. There entire purpose for Classic is to simply recreate and immortalize the Vanilla WoW time.
I think you underestimate how much potential Classic WoW has. I am well aware that the gaming community is much different nowadays, but I think the MMORPG market has lots of space to grow. There just isn't that much competition. Classic WoW is flawed in some regard, but I think it still appeals to players who are new to the genre.
How will Classic WoW grow and stay relevant without new content then?
By continuing to do what they are doing. Rereleasing old content. Classic BC. Classic WotLK. They arent reinventing the wheel.
This whole outcry over the years has been about bringing back Classic WoW, not TBC or WOTLK. I understand your perspective, but why tread the path that lead us to Battle for Azeroth? Do I think The Burning Crusade was a better experience than later expansions like WoD or BFA? Sure, but there is a reason Classic WoW is the game that Blizzard is resurrecting. Classic is what has been most popular on private servers, as well as argued over on discussion forums. What if Classic WoW is just as good as many remembered? Why not keep it alive through new content?
I do not think Classic WoW is the perfect game, and I am well aware that many gamers today won't care for it. I am thoroughly convinced however, that TBC and WOTLK are upheld mostly by nostalgia. Features like arena, small capital cities, being stuck on a single continent, flying mounts, heroic modes all helped define TBC and WOTLK. These same features continue define WoW in BFA as well. Classic is different.
Classic WoW is flawed in some regard, but I think it still appeals to players who are new to the genre.
I think you miss the biggest point here, Classic WoW is born out of the fact that millions of players were searching out and playing illegally run private servers. On those servers, the successful ones were the ones that were able to best recreate the Vanilla WoW gameplay and timeline as closely as possible to the original. People don't want a 'custom' server with additions and changes and extra content. They wanted Vanilla WoW just as it was, with flaws and problems and grinding. It is a different type of game that doesn't exist anymore, and people want it back.
I don't know if they will do Classic BC/WotLK, possibly - but for now the whole intention of this was to capitalize on the already existing desire for people to play a Blizzlike Vanilla Server, over a decade after it disappeared.
Classic WoW is flawed in some regard, but I think it still appeals to players who are new to the genre.
I think you miss the biggest point here, Classic WoW is born out of the fact that millions of players were searching out and playing illegally run private servers. On those servers, the successful ones were the ones that were able to best recreate the Vanilla WoW gameplay and timeline as closely as possible to the original. People don't want a 'custom' server with additions and changes and extra content. They wanted Vanilla WoW just as it was, with flaws and problems and grinding. It is a different type of game that doesn't exist anymore, and people want it back.
I don't know if they will do Classic BC/WotLK, possibly - but for now the whole intention of this was to capitalize on the already existing desire for people to play a Blizzlike Vanilla Server, over a decade after it disappeared.
Yes, I understand that. I am thoroughly convinced however, that TBC and WOTLK are upheld mostly by nostalgia. Features like arena, small capital cities, being stuck on a single continent, flying mounts, heroic modes defined TBC and WOTLK. These same features continue to define WoW in BFA as well. Classic is different. That is why the demand for Classic WoW is much higher in the private server scene. Classic WoW as you stated represents a type of game that no longer exists today.
If Blizzard can successfully add content that enhances the Classic WoW experience, then why why not do it? There will be a lot of players who will demand more content. They will want new mounts, gear, recipes to collect etc.. The original post is an idea about how that can be achieved without adding the features of TBC which rendered WoW unrecognizable.
There will be a lot of players who will demand more content. They will want new mounts, gear, recipes to collect etc.
I think this is the retail attitude which has been slowly killing WoW - I don't really want people demanding content for Classic, that is not the point of Classic at all.
There will be a lot of players who will demand more content. They will want new mounts, gear, recipes to collect etc.
I think this is the retail attitude which has been slowly killing WoW - I don't really want people demanding content for Classic, that is not the point of Classic at all.
That was the reality back in 2005/2006. Many players demanded more content. That is why Blizzard set out to make The Burning Crusade. Classic WoW won't keep growing unless they keep adding content. That is just the nature of gaming. The OP offers an alternate path than the one which led us to TBC.
Something that we talk a lot about on the Classic OCE Discord. Personally I like the idea of horizontal content, but I don't think at any point should it entirely invalidate any of the content that has come before it, further I think the additional content should supplement what's already there. A couple ideas I have concepted in my head would be the following:
Dragon Isles
A questing zone for veteran and new level 60 players. Basically a level 60 questing zone with a reputation (maybe a rep mount at exalted? - singular, one mount and with a sizeable gold cost). Quest rewards can include some 'catch up gear' that is on par with BWL gear. This helps bring new players up a bit quicker considering this would be post Naxx. I think having a new area to explore with a rep grind for a mount is enough to entice a veteran player to hang out, whereas it entices new players through gold and gear.
Grim Batol/Surrounding Area
I know Twilight highlands is a thing in Cata, and I'm not asking for that. I think Grim Batol would be an interesting location for a level 40-44 questing/levelling hub for both Horde and Alliance. It brings more foot traffic from both sides into the Wetlands as well as providing some level of congruency with Hillsbrad/Arathi Highlands. Additionally it's an area that was forgotten during Vanilla and it would be nice to give that area meaning.
I see a lot of people throwing around Classic+ and the ilk and while I think that of itself is fine, I just worry that people have poor understanding of game design which can lead to poor decisions when coupled with Blizzards current inability to understand meaningful game choices/mechanics/systems. If a voting system came in, I think we'd just end up exactly where we are currently unless blizzard is able to better design things and then curate the polls. IE; if the decision was "We have made this content, it fits in with this, this and this - do you want it? Yes or No?" instead of "We're looking at making this content or this content, which would you like" then maybe we could come to a well rounded product.
Also as a flipside to all of the above, and after reading some of the other comments. I think Classic+ is a contentious topic alongside further expansions. It puts us in the same situation as we were before - not having access to the game everyone remembers and loves. As soon as you go TBC or Wrath, you've lost classic so what do you do if that's what you want to play? I think Classic+ is probably the fairest middle ground, while not entirely being a 100% solution. You retain the base game, but add some additional content and frills here and there to keep it fresh for new and old players. At the end of the day, content does run out and Blizzard is here to make money - so it'll be interesting to see how they go about all of this.
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Something that we talk a lot about on the Classic OCE Discord. Personally I like the idea of horizontal content, but I don't think at any point should it entirely invalidate any of the content that has come before it, further I think the additional content should supplement what's already there. A couple ideas I have concepted in my head would be the following:
Dragon Isles
A questing zone for veteran and new level 60 players. Basically a level 60 questing zone with a reputation (maybe a rep mount at exalted? - singular, one mount and with a sizeable gold cost). Quest rewards can include some 'catch up gear' that is on par with BWL gear. This helps bring new players up a bit quicker considering this would be post Naxx. I think having a new area to explore with a rep grind for a mount is enough to entice a veteran player to hang out, whereas it entices new players through gold and gear.
Grim Batol/Surrounding Area
I know Twilight highlands is a thing in Cata, and I'm not asking for that. I think Grim Batol would be an interesting location for a level 40-44 questing/levelling hub for both Horde and Alliance. It brings more foot traffic from both sides into the Wetlands as well as providing some level of congruency with Hillsbrad/Arathi Highlands. Additionally it's an area that was forgotten during Vanilla and it would be nice to give that area meaning.
I see a lot of people throwing around Classic+ and the ilk and while I think that of itself is fine, I just worry that people have poor understanding of game design which can lead to poor decisions when coupled with Blizzards current inability to understand meaningful game choices/mechanics/systems. If a voting system came in, I think we'd just end up exactly where we are currently unless blizzard is able to better design things and then curate the polls. IE; if the decision was "We have made this content, it fits in with this, this and this - do you want it? Yes or No?" instead of "We're looking at making this content or this content, which would you like" then maybe we could come to a well rounded product.
Also as a flipside to all of the above, and after reading some of the other comments. I think Classic+ is a contentious topic alongside further expansions. It puts us in the same situation as we were before - not having access to the game everyone remembers and loves. As soon as you go TBC or Wrath, you've lost classic so what do you do if that's what you want to play? I think Classic+ is probably the fairest middle ground, while not entirely being a 100% solution. You retain the base game, but add some additional content and frills here and there to keep it fresh for new and old players. At the end of the day, content does run out and Blizzard is here to make money - so it'll be interesting to see how they go about all of this.
/wall of text
Those concepts of including areas like Grim Batol, Dragon Isles would be cool. New zones, dungeons, raids that are added should be connected and inside the Old World. I do not think welfare epics should be added as a catch up mechanic however. Having high end gear attainable through an endgame quest chain should be welcomed. Set Naxxramas gear at the highest end, then add more gear that falls within T1, T2, T3. Use different set bonuses or even new attributes to distinguish the sets. Not only would players be able to look different, but also customize their builds/playstyles through set bonuses on new gear.