Every change needs to be looked at objectively with reasoning for implementation.
This is the key takeaway from all discussions regarding changes to Classic, and ultimately most wont have enough objective reasoning to actually implement the change.
That was the reality back in 2005/2006. Many players demanded more content. That is why Blizzard set out to make The Burning Crusade. Classic WoW won't keep growing unless they keep adding content. That is just the nature of gaming. The OP offers an alternate path than the one which led us to TBC.
Sorry what?
Many players demanded more content
Ehem, did you saw the graph how many people back then cleared Naxx?
Only 100 Guilds cleared Naxx pre-TBC Patch, that means around 400 People saw the complete Content. From what 6mio. Players?
And on every realm I played there mostly was one or two persons who had EVERYTHING done, in meanings of Professions/Reputation and other stuff.
If people complained about more content back then, i'm sorry, they were idiots.
I would also like to have pre-TBC patch Naxx cleared unfortunately I only saw 60% at that time.
Honestly, all the people who are already screaming for more content etc. they simply have no idea how powerful Classic is and what to expect.
Yeah, sure, we know when the game ends, but I'm telling you. Half of the players won't complete the content within the given phases.
That was the reality back in 2005/2006. Many players demanded more content. That is why Blizzard set out to make The Burning Crusade. Classic WoW won't keep growing unless they keep adding content. That is just the nature of gaming. The OP offers an alternate path than the one which led us to TBC.
Sorry what?
Many players demanded more content
Ehem, did you saw the graph how many people back then cleared Naxx?
Only 100 Guilds cleared Naxx pre-TBC Patch, that means around 400 People saw the complete Content. From what 6mio. Players?
And on every realm I played there mostly was one or two persons who had EVERYTHING done, in meanings of Professions/Reputation and other stuff.
If people complained about more content back then, i'm sorry, they were idiots.
I would also like to have pre-TBC patch Naxx cleared unfortunately I only saw 60% at that time.
Honestly, all the people who are already screaming for more content etc. they simply have no idea how powerful Classic is and what to expect.
Yeah, sure, we know when the game ends, but I'm telling you. Half of the players won't complete the content within the given phases.
The content in Classic WoW is frontloaded. Almost all of it is during the first year. Most players were not actively involved in raiding. The issue with WoW Classic is that there is not much content added after the first year. Blizzard added no new dungeons or zones after the first year. They only added more hardcore raids which very few players did. Instead of adding more dungeons, quests, raids similar to ZG or MC, Blizzard went full hardcore with AQ/Naxx. All that did was widen the gap between the elitists and casuals. The lack of content in the 2nd year of Classic led to many players to quit. I was one of them. However, there were so many new players joining the game even towards the end of Classic, that the dip wasn't noticeable.
Those concepts of including areas like Grim Batol, Dragon Isles would be cool. New zones, dungeons, raids that are added should be connected and inside the Old World. I do not think welfare epics should be added as a catch up mechanic however. Having high end gear attainable through an endgame quest chain should be welcomed. Set Naxxramas gear at the highest end, then add more gear that falls within T1, T2, T3. Use different set bonuses or even new attributes to distinguish the sets. Not only would players be able to look different, but also customize their builds/playstyles through set bonuses on new gear.
I don't think adding new set bonuses is a fix all. I understand where you're headed with it and why - but I think modifiying things like that really starts to affect the whole meta and changes around how people talent, etc. Gearing then becomes extremely strange if you're suddenly shoving non-viable specs into the light.
Every change needs to be looked at objectively with reasoning for implementation.
The challenge is offering horizontal gear progression that is worthwhile. I agree that is difficult. It is more convoluted than just adding Tier 4 gear that has higher stats. Doing that only causes power creep which renders other gear irrelevant. The idea instead is to change the meta and change the way players use talents and abilities. That is where the replayability comes in. Instead of messing with the spells and talent trees, which would effect all playes, you could use something like tier set bonuses to create individual build diversity. Players could enhance the talents they like, and sacrifice ones they don't. For instance compare the Rogue T1 and T2 sets.
Tier 1 Rogue Nightslayer
(3) Set : Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish ability by 30 sec.
(5) Set : Increases your maximum Energy by 10.
(8) Set : Heals the rogue for 500 when Vanish is performed.
Tier 2 Rogue Bloodfang
(3) Set : Increases the chance to apply poisons to your target by 5%.
(5) Set : Improves the threat reduction of Feint by 25%.
(8) Set : Gives the Rogue a chance to inflict 283 to 317 damage on the target and heal the Rogue for 50 health every 1 sec. for 6 sec. on a melee hit.
Bloodfang is probably the better set in PvE. The attack power I believe is higher. However, the tier set bonuses of Tier 1 Nightslayer might appeal more to a PvP player. You could have other Tier 1 or Tier 2 sets that change the way abilities or talents work. It isn't a vast overhaul of the spell or talent system, it just allows for minor tweaks based on player preferences. There is also the appeal of the new visuals that additional tier sets would offer.
Blizzard could add a Scarlet Crusade 40 man Raid. The Raid would drop T2 gear. A hypothetical new rogue set could be Phantasmal Armor.
Tier 2 Rogue Phantasmal
(3) Set : Increases the chance of Eviscerate to ignore armor by 5%.
(5) Set : Dirty deeds also reduces the energy of kidney shot by 10.
(8) Set : Adrenaline rush now increases movement speed by 100%.
You want to keep the basic talent/spell system of Classic WoW in tact. Ability bloat is very bad. The goal is to alter the playstyles and meta of classes through these set bonuses. Players would be able to combine different set bonuses to create builds for PvP and PvE. The bonuses need to be interesting enough so that players want to collect new raid sets. In the expansions, players collect new gear solely for the sake of increasing their stats in a linear fashion. I think this horizontal progression system offers more customization without making gear obsolete. There is also the cosmetic aspect. Players want new gear just for the sake of looking different too. There is also other items players can collect in raids than just gear.
The allure of playing WoW is the progression the game offers. Classic WoW has an especially steep progression curve that offers substantial rewards. You get huge upgrades in Classic WoW, that is part of the fun. How do you implement a horizontal progression system that makes collecting more gear worthwhile? Do you place the focus on adding more farmable mounts, pets, tradeskill recipes instead? Classic WoW needed more systems in the open world, as well as ways to progress your character outside of just gearing. There are so many dynamic systems that could add to the open world for both PvE and PvP. Vertical progression kills content. That is the easy way out. The Burning Crusade practically killed the world of Classic.
I love making controversial posts, but this is nutty. Hahahaha. Are you one of teebling's friends...?
No, not possible. They’d never think of such a cool username/avatar combination :smile:
Welcome RedridgeGnoll!
RedridgeGnoll I think the problem you have here is not the argument of vertical vs horizontal, it's changes vs no changes. I don't think you need to add anymore content regardless of what axis it falls on. You've got YEARS of content and replayability in Classic WoW, and changing it represents a huge risk for blizzard. There is already a massive demand for Classic TBC and less so Classic WotLK. Doing anything different or new presents way more investment and way more risk, as outlined by Stfuppercut.
How will Classic WoW grow and stay relevant without new content then?
It' a recreation of a 15 year old game, there is no 'staying relevant'. The only growing that Classic WoW will do, is via the community and the player based events and interactions. There entire purpose for Classic is to simply recreate and immortalize the Vanilla WoW time.
When people start feeling bored because they've experienced everything, they'll be given the chance to transfer to a TBC server. I'll bet on it.
No, not possible. They’d never think of such a cool username/avatar combination :smile:
Welcome @RedridgeGnoll!
You also said, your friends of now clue about the game or?
I think that whenever something like this is discussed it is important to keep in mind that the devs would have to "maintain the spirit of Classic." Which is no trivial matter to begin with; inventing additional content is easy in comparison.
It should be a discussion on what is "the spirit of Classic." Perhaps a distillation of what the population wants from the game into a core set of principles/tenants for future content development
Just preserve it.
If anything create a TBC server and allow people to bring their 60 over to continue the journey!
One of the problems of releasing new content after vanilla is that (and I think everyone here agrees) it should not compromise old content. One of the bad design decisions in BC that impacted on vanilla was that everything had to be bigger because of ... no particular reason:
- Outland was physically bigger: zones were considerable bigger than vanilla ones but they comparatively weren't filled with more content; your epic mount no longer feels fast enough to travel, you had to fly; traveling longer distances made summoning stones a necessity and leaving the world a lot emptier.
- Everything cost a lot more and everyone gives you a lot more gold for no reason: Repairs and consumables got a lot more expensive, the new epic mount went from 1000g to 5000g; on the other hand quest rewards and mobs gave a lot more of gold.
- Items stat's were also higher for no reason in particular. A green in Hellfire peninsula could replace an epic from vanilla. Having Atiesh, Greatstaff of the Guardian replaced at level 70 is just plain ridiculous.
BC was fun, and it will be fun to relive it. But is not free of flaws. Classic + doesn't need to create new content from scratch, maybe they can aim to fix BC flaws.
daisyKutter Gnoll is proposing new content with no loot upgrades better than Naxx, so that wouldn’t be the issue.
I’m against Classic+ regardless. Not many people even got to see Naxx and most guilds died in BWL so the perceived ‘shortage of content’ argument doesn’t really play out.
They should just add the barber shop after Naxx and call it a day. Maybe the dance studio as well.