So we've recently had a thread about streamers and their negative effect on the game. I agreed with everything posted there and even posted myself a couple videos with a few losing their minds over trivial stuff (loot).
However since beta was announced I have started watching a few of them and realized not all of them are idiots. Some of them like Asmongold even generate interesting world events like recent dragon kiting action. If you haven't seen it, they have kited dragon from Blasted Lands to SW hoping Bolvar would help them kill it. When it failed, they started kiting it to Undercity as a gift to the Horde. We used to have such events in Vanilla but with streamers being watched by a lot of people, Horde organized defense at Thandol Span in Arathi and successfully repelled the attack. I must say, it looked impressive.
Some arguments, like the risk of population fluctuations when streamer comes and streamer goes, still stand. Some streamers are really annoying, entitled jerks but it seems not all of them. With that in mind I would like to start a discussion on potential positive implications of streamers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js8MFCiINYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8par3WimiU
PS.: I realize, I might get burned. :smile:
You can't deny the positive effects that the increased visibility for classic has. Seeing Classic Beta streams topple over Retail was really satisfying.
It's so divisive because on one hand... I'm glad they exist. I'm glad they are bringing attention to classic in a way no one else can. I truly feel there will be a lot of benefits to them being around
On the other hand... I Don't want to be on the same server as a streamer. Ever. lol.
I'm glad this got posted because it's definitely a double-edged sword for me when it comes to streamers. There's all the negative stuff that does come up quite often and for very good reason too, but there's also other things worth bearing in mind:
Some of these guys are very committed and are enjoying well-deserved popularity after working hard at building their brand and following ever since the classic announcement. I know what this struggle is like (and will continue to be) because I'm going through the same with building up a community here. It takes a hell of a lot of work to produce well edited youtube videos and to keep streams exciting enough to bring people back. Let's not forget that guys. Most of them work hard.
Now the negative for me:
On the other hand, as a 'content creator' myself, I'm envious hat these guys make so much money. I don't make anything but put in a hell of a lot of work into barrens chat. I definitely think that (not naming names) some people out there were opportunists back at release and made the decision to build a stream community as a 'foothold' for a profitable channel rather than for a passion for the game.
It also pisses me off that some took advantage of Blizzard's early heads-up about release date/beta and broke a non-disclosure agreement/media embargo by posting hints about the beta which inevitably lead to them getting a lot of attention which was undeserved.
That was pretty bad and was salt on the wound for everyone else who wasn't 'in' on the news. If I had been given notice for example I would have had time to prepare my own stuff to take advantage of the increase in exposure for the game directly relating to bringing more traffic here. But I didn't. Oh well ¯_(ツ)_/¯
there are really some great streamers. Venruki who said before that he do not think that he could enjoy such a clunky version of WoW but after some days in the Beta he really likes it. Cdew also loves the Beta and the impactfull PvP.
I can't say I particularly care about "a" streamer. They're each just one person. Whether they're a loser or a good, hardworking person is irrelevant to me.
No, it's all their frothing fans that would be willing to show up on their server that I don't want to meet.
In the end, this all gets rolled up into one person because it is their very presence that goes hand in hand with the negative effects. The fact that one of them (can't remember who) is considering not revealing which server they're on just ticks me off. I just want to avoid the dude and his rabid fans and get on with my game.
Positive: The obvious free advertisement. Like it or not, WoW being #1 on twitch (or was it #2? in any case one of the top) after a long time is a blessing. Sure when a new expansion launches it's the same, but this is just a Beta Classic. Imagine when actual Classic launches. More people get to know WoW, or more people start returning the game, therefore you get more players which is always healthy for a game like WoW.
Unjustified rant for Asmongold regarding WSG HK farming / boss kiting and his team was silly. Yeah having a top streamer on your server is terrible (it's actually the "fanboiz" that make it terrible), but some of the rant on the forums was embarrassing. Ranting for not capping the flag on WSG and camping HK on GY? C'mon that's as Vanilla as you can get; that shit was happening on Vanilla and TBC (I think they introduced a timer in Wotlk?). Same with luring bosses / high level monsters to cities. That was also a thing in Vanilla. It was either "fixed" in TBC or Wotlk.
And do you know why it was fixed? Because people got mad. They demanded that they play the game the way they want it. It's the same local minority that made sure that we will never have a pre-wotlk event ever again (zombie plague). Zombie Plague was actually the most fun I ever had in WoW - period. But the people who got butthurt and posted on the forums demanding the heads of developers for having the audacity of planning an all-out-pvp event are partly to blame why we have such a PG13 game nowadays.
Just look at how Blizzard used to interact with its fanbase. Calling them retards (which... was poor in taste and terrible word choice, but it's still something different than the corporate shill-level of interaction we have these days), telling players to kick leechers in 40man raids ("just kick them out of your guild... they are not doing anything.." - Jeff), or simply telling the fans "No, you are wrong." etc. Nowadays the company would be lynched on social media for making a slightly discomforting comment.
But I digress. My point is, the Vanilla game was not holding anyone's hand and it was not shying away from disturbing players. Sure you can argue that kiting a boss to another city was not intended and it was just a by-product of a not-100%-functioning-mechanic, but the end result was something epic. Something to tell your friends. That one time that X boss was kited to Orgrimmar and killed everyone, until high level players started to band together and finally defeated the enemy, leaving hundreds if not thousands of corpses. These stories are what made Vanilla amazing.
Negative: Streamers generally ruin any server they touch. It's not due to the backlash-to-the-rant above, no, but more on how they ruin the economy/gameplay. A streamer is leveling in STV? Well you might as well leave because you can't find any monsters, can't complete any quests, and if you're on a PvP server you might as well stay dead. A streamer needs https://classic.wowhead.com/item=16203/greater-eternal-essence ? Well say hello to 1000% inflation to all level 56-60 green items. The list goes on and on. Also once the said streamer either stops playing or transfers, that server dies instantly and will not generate new players because the first thing someone finds on the internet is "DO NOT JOIN SERVER XYZ THATS WHERE ASMON PLAYS" and they'll be like "whelp fuck that, I ain't playing there".
I definitely think that (not naming names) some people out there were opportunists back at release and made the decision to build a stream community as a 'foothold' for a profitable channel rather than for a passion for the game.
It also pisses me off that some took advantage of Blizzard's early heads-up about release date/beta and broke a non-disclosure agreement/media embargo by posting hints about the beta which inevitably lead to them getting a lot of attention which was undeserved.
I will not give any names. I urge anyone who follows this conversation to do the same, just so they don't get any (more) free advertisement from here. But the release date / beta NDA was handled by some of these "newer generation streamers" (aka who didn't exist before Classic was announced) was so unprofessional and handled so poorly, it was such a vicarious embarrassment moment. Not just for the streamers, but for the Blizzard employee(s) who made the call to invite such players for their heads-up gathering.
"Oh you better clear your schedule guys.... NO NO IM NOT BREAKING NDA TEEHEE"
"OH IM JUST SAYING, WHAT NUMBER COMES AFTER 26??? OKAY.... WELL DID U KNOW THAT WHILE JUNE AND JULY IS PRETTY HOT, AUGUST IS THE HOTTEST MONTH OF THE YEAR?? OO NO NO NOT BREAKING NDA GUYS IT COOL GUYS"
"Ohhhh what are guys planning for tomorrow btw?? JUST WONDERING!!!"
I mean give me a fucking break. I get that some of them were excited and just wanted to get the word out there as soon as possible, but it was so obnoxious that I refused to watch any of their streams anymore. I have reddit and surely enough everything will be posted there in an hour.
It was the grown-up version of a "HA HA HA NOT TOUCHING YOU, CAN'T GET MAD. NO NO NO, NOT TOUCHING YOU, SEE??!" while waving their hands aggressively 1cm. away from your face.
I'm sure (or hopefull) that Blizz will be more selective the next time.
Streamers will never be good for anyone or anything other than the people that donate money to hear their name said on stream.
I can't say I particularly care about "a" streamer. They're each just one person. Whether they're a loser or a good, hardworking person is irrelevant to me.
No, it's all their frothing fans that would be willing to show up on their server that I don't want to meet.
In the end, this all gets rolled up into one person because it is their very presence that goes hand in hand with the negative effects. The fact that one of them (can't remember who) is considering not revealing which server they're on just ticks me off. I just want to avoid the dude and his rabid fans and get on with my game.
This is spot on. The streamers are just one person. It's the legions of rabid lickspittles that trail them that cause the problems. A streamer in a group (e.g. 1 streamer + 4 friends) is not a big deal. It's when everyone figures out where they are and swarms the area disrupting other players.
It's like being at your favorite food joint when an A-list celebrity walks in for a meal. Suddenly there's tons of fans vying for attention, being jerks to the locals and making a scene.
It's the legions of rabid lickspittles...
For those curious. Lickspittle: a person who behaves obsequiously to those in power.
Bravo Sporks, Bravo.
Actually that's quite interesting. I would love if some psychologist could tune in and explain the behaviour of people gathering at streamer like moths. Sometimes begging for some invite or duel. Even if it was famous person, in a thousand years, I can't see myself doing that.
Going back to topic, I just think what they did in that short time was really fun. Doing SM Arms/Cath at lvl 30 felt a bit like raid. Then trying to kill world bosses with 2 raids, each 40 people, followed by that kiting action with it's culmination at Thandol Span. I think I'd really enjoy participating.
I think nobody can deny the helpfulness they have provided in free publicity, hype, and interest in the release of classic wow and I appreciate them a lot for that as it has also been hyping me up as well. Along with this publicity and constant streaming time they have been providing, I am certain bugs that otherwise would have been unseen or unnoticed have not been shed light on along with misconceptions (elite mob damage) being corrected. This has been an overall good thing for Classic WoW and I am looking forward even more to know that with all this light being shed on the beta we will be able to get closer to the original experience.
As salty that I am that I didn't get Beta I am glad that the streamers did because at least I can watch them play