Classic Plus is fun to think about, but unfortunately, it destroys the whole point of Classic. if Classic Plus were to be implemented, people would immediately start screaming for "Classic Minus". Expansion servers are the only reasonable way forward.
I’d absolutely love to see TBC and WoTLK servers! If they do it on separate servers without interfering with classic or anything then it’s totally ok. I even want Cataclysm and MoP servers (But those would be unpopular)
Actually, there is as much demand for MoP servers as there is for Classic and BC, and only slightly less for Cat. The most popular by far is Wrath.
Blood elves do not belong on the Horde whatsoever.
Yes they do. A Blood Elf is literally warchief right now.
Actually, there is as much demand for MoP servers as there is for Classic and BC, and only slightly less for Cat. The most popular by far is Wrath.
What kind of nonsense is this?
As far as people doubting the success of BC, you are the exact same as people who doubted Classic. BC has a massive following in its own right. Based on the pserver interest I could see Classic, BC and WoTLK succeeding in the Classic atmosphere. Restoring the trilogy makes sense AND people who are uninterested in the products individually would likely be interested in playing through the story lines as they happened, if they could access all 3 in a row. While I'm sure many tourists wont stay for an extended period in Classic, I could see a lot of appeal for playing through Vanilla, transferring to BC and playing through BC and then finishing in WoTLK to have an authentic experience. This would be the endgame for a tourist.
This. I had never actually thought of it as a trilogy but it actually makes a lot of sense. Solid ending as well. I really enjoyed getting the first kill on the Lich King, it felt like a proper ending.
TBC makes business sense and will be where they go next. The content is already made. They just need to hire a skeleton crew as a restoration team to bring it back to life. Small financial investment with a massive return (just like Classic!). This has always been the obvious route Blizz would take. This does not mean that Classic will be forced into BC... The entire purpose of Classic is that it is timelocked. It would make no sense to invest into Classic and only allow it to play through one cycle when they know they can harvest it repeatedly. I'm not sure why people assume that Blizz would force your character into TBC... This would make no business sense.
I'd love to see Classic seasons rolled out, kind of like what they do now on Diablo 3. All the current servers would stay alive, but once all 6 content phases are released, + a period of time, they could stand up new seasonal servers. And those seasonal servers could cycle through a period of time, then close, then re-open again. There is definitely a progression crowd that this would cater to, would be minimal effort on the part of Blizzard, and seems fun.
I highly doubt THEY have a definitive plan for Classic and I think they will make the choice as time goes on. If the product remains succesful, they will invest into a profitable asset! If the product begins to lose valuable, it will not be valuable and they will remove resources from the asset and harvest it for as long as can be sustained.
From the mouth of the beast itself:
> What are the plans after Phase 6? More content for classic or moving to TBC?
We've done most of the hard work by bringing back 1.12 so progressing to Burning Crusade would be a lot easier for us. Our plan is to identify everything we need to do should we ever decide to go this route. We want to be sensitive to the desires of our players. Some may want BC and some may not. We'll be following the Classic community closely to help determine what our next steps should be.
They're looking for feedback on where we want to go next. They need time to develop their software roadmap, so they're going to start doing that soon. And since now is the feedback period, the question is what do we all want? Are there core things in common between all of us that stand out?
I'm not against TBC or Wrath servers. I would at least play an alt on TBC, not sure about Wrath. But still not against it. But these would have the same snapshot issue that Classic suffers from. TBC and Wrath weren't single patch fixed assets, just like how the original game wasn't. But with the Classic model, we're frozen in time with a single talent point, spec, and itemization(largely) patch that lives throughout the entirety of the game. These games were all alive and changed and morphed as time went on, and having everything locked in place isn't quite the same experience.
That's why I do want a Classic+ model. And to me that means no new features, no new in-game systems. No new races or classes, and no merging of all classes to allow everybody to do everything like they can on retail. What I would want in a Classic+ is for some specs to get boosted to viability, like Prot Paladins, Ret Paladins, OOMKins, etc. But not in a way to nerf the game content, or add new capabilities.. just make them suck less in comparison to the other classes. And I'd want to see new zones and raids, but would keep the level cap at level 60. I'd be fine with adding progression beyond Naxx, making the existing raids more difficult, and adding more 10 and 20 man raids for players to do after UBRS and AQ20 that don't need to be in a guild to pull off. I think adding things like this to the Classic framework fits within the philosophies of the original game and don't try to change what the original game was could work.
So I guess this is my own priority list of what I want to see a couple years from now, after we've all had time to settle in and enjoy Classic for a long time:
1> Classic+ with an OSRS development model run by community supermajority voting
2> Seasonal servers added to current classic
3> TBC followed by Wrath servers
Any of these are fine, but an eventual Classic+ is my preference.
What is so good about WOTLK?
I cant speak for the people who like WoTLK as it is my least favorite xpac. But there is a ton of interest for it (as shown by the private community seeking to play it). Just as Cata is often reminisced about in the high-end PvP community for its balance and competitive nature. Just as MoP is held dear to those who started post WoTLK. Each audience will be interested in their version of the game, just as you are interested in your own version of the game that does not appeal to the rest of us. The trick for Blizz is to assess the interest in individual xpacs and get some raw data on what their projected return would look like. Separating all of the noise from facts and investing in winning games.
I can only speak for myself. I will play Classic a lot. If/when BC comes out, I will play it a lot. If/when WoTLK comes out, I will play it casually. After this I personally would not play a Classic project.
Actually, there is as much demand for MoP servers as there is for Classic and BC, and only slightly less for Cat. The most popular by far is Wrath.
> citation needed
You're the first person I've ever seen claim that MoP and Cataclysm needs to be brought back. I can't accept this claim of heavy demand for these at face value without something supporting this.
Actually, there is as much demand for MoP servers as there is for Classic and BC, and only slightly less for Cat. The most popular by far is Wrath.
> citation needed
You're the first person I've ever seen claim that MoP and Cataclysm needs to be brought back. I can't accept this claim of heavy demand for these at face value without something supporting this.
Cataclysm was the best expansion. I am convinced it would be the most popular if brought back.
there were so many things I loved about TBC, and so many things I hated. Like others here say, I wish they'd consider a C+ route instead to bring in good things from TBC without changing the world, but I doubt they will do that, it seems silly to have a Classic and a Classic+ running side-by-side, but I think there would be backlash if they attempted to start mucking with Classic servers, unless they were extremely cautious.
Actually, there is as much demand for MoP servers as there is for Classic and BC, and only slightly less for Cat. The most popular by far is Wrath.
> citation needed
You're the first person I've ever seen claim that MoP and Cataclysm needs to be brought back. I can't accept this claim of heavy demand for these at face value without something supporting this.
Cataclysm was the best expansion. I am convinced it would be the most popular if brought back.
:lol:
You mean the game that launched the steady downward spiral of subscriptions?
there were so many things I loved about TBC, and so many things I hated. Like others here say, I wish they'd consider a C+ route instead to bring in good things from TBC without changing the world, but I doubt they will do that, it seems silly to have a Classic and a Classic+ running side-by-side, but I think there would be backlash if they attempted to start mucking with Classic servers, unless they were extremely cautious.
It is a risk worth taking. I believe Classic WoW could return WoW to the glory it once had if Classic+ is handled correctly. The best part of MMORPGs is their open worlds. Once you turn them into lobby based instance simulators, you end up competing with so many other genres and games. That is when WoW loses. It worked in TBC because there was not much outside competition. That is not the case today. MMORPGs were about open world. That is what seperates Classic WoW from the expansions. Some instancing does work, but it should not be the focus.
Actually, there is as much demand for MoP servers as there is for Classic and BC, and only slightly less for Cat. The most popular by far is Wrath.
> citation needed
You're the first person I've ever seen claim that MoP and Cataclysm needs to be brought back. I can't accept this claim of heavy demand for these at face value without something supporting this.
Cataclysm was the best expansion. I am convinced it would be the most popular if brought back.
:lol:
You mean the game that launched the steady downward spiral of subscriptions?
One of the biggest misconceptions regarding WoW. Look at the chart. There was small growth during WOTLK. A lot of players burned out in WOTLK, especially during the second half. Remember there was almost no new content after ICC. Players moved on, and new games like League of Legends took players. The release of Cataclysm could not undo the damage that WOTLK had already caused. The formula that Blizzard implemented in TBC began to wear off during WOTLK.
This. I had never actually thought of it as a trilogy but it actually makes a lot of sense. Solid ending as well. I really enjoyed getting the first kill on the Lich King, it felt like a proper ending.
I very frequently hear the "Thrall Era" referred to as a trilogy. And yeah, WotLK was the first expansion to have a "you killed the final boss of the final raid, congratulations!" cinematic, AND that cinematic just happened to conclude the storyline that began in Warcraft 3, which was the first time a Warcraft game actually had a story to speak of. It really felt like not just the end of WoW, but the end of the whole damn franchise... or at the very least, the end of a pentalogy consisting of WC3, The Frozen Throne, WoW, BC, and Wrath. That feeling wouldn't be recaptured until the end of Legion.
You're the first person I've ever seen claim that MoP and Cataclysm needs to be brought back. I can't accept this claim of heavy demand for these at face value without something supporting this.
I made a facebook poll once. I don't remember what group it was in. I can make a new one once my 30-day vacation wears off.
One of the biggest misconceptions regarding WoW. Look at the chart. There was small growth during WOTLK. A lot of players burned out in WOTLK, especially during the second half. Remember there was almost no new content after ICC. Players moved on, and new games like League of Legends took players. The release of Cataclysm could not undo the damage that WOTLK had already caused.
The decline started in Cataclysm, not Wrath.
Wrath was the beginning of the end for me. It took a lot of the cancer that TBC added and amplified it. Flying mounts everywhere, AOE spam everything, push-button-receive-group fully came online. Wrath started to lose my interest, and I quit completely after picking up cataclysm. Wrath was the beginning of the end and Cataclysm threw the final dirt on the coffin. I didn't want to play cataclysm then, and I wouldn't play it now either.
League of Legends didn't steal me away, I just went outside and started lifting. I kind of quit gaming in general after Cataclysm. The only game that has brought me back since has been brief stints of D3 and now Classic. I'm only interested in a certain specific type of gameplay and Classic brings that back.
One of the biggest misconceptions regarding WoW. Look at the chart. There was small growth during WOTLK. A lot of players burned out in WOTLK, especially during the second half. Remember there was almost no new content after ICC. Players moved on, and new games like League of Legends took players. The release of Cataclysm could not undo the damage that WOTLK had already caused.
The decline started in Cataclysm, not Wrath.
Wrath was the beginning of the end for me. It took a lot of the cancer that TBC added and amplified it. Flying mounts everywhere, AOE spam everything, push-button-receive-group fully came online. Wrath started to lose my interest, and I quit completely after picking up cataclysm. Wrath was the beginning of the end and Cataclysm threw the final dirt on the coffin. I didn't want to play cataclysm then, and I wouldn't play it now either.
League of Legends didn't steal me away, I just went outside and started lifting. I kind of quit gaming in general after Cataclysm. The only game that has brought me back since has been brief stints of D3 and now Classic. I'm only interested in a certain specific type of gameplay and Classic brings that back.
What you said is exactly what happened. WOTLK was when the population stopped growing. I quit multiple times in WOTLK, because it was boring. Also, how could Deathwing ever be as appealing as Arthas as a final boss. The playerbase was tired of how formulaic WoW had become. TBC started this by removing the emphasis on the world. A lot of more hardcore players left WOTLK because of how casual it became. Blizzard ramped up on the difficulty when Cata launched, but that then alienated casual players who joined during WOTLK.
Cataclysm is much closer to what Post-Classic should have been.
Cataclysm? The expansion in which WoW's population began its decline? The expansion that destroyed the old world? The expansion whose final raid boss was a dragon from Warcraft 2 that most WoW players had never heard of? Yes, that Cataclysm. No expansion brought more features to WoW than Cataclysm. It was the best expansion WoW ever had, and it was the last expansion that Blizzard truly poured their hearts into.
There is so much nostalgia for The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King. But is there nostalgia for running around in mismatched gear? What about lagging in Dalaran or Shattrah, cities that were smaller than single wings in Ironforge. Or what about how the entire World of Warcraft was shrunk into a handful of zones on single continents. The decision by Blizzard to disregard the entire World in favor of focusing everything on small continents in these expansions is largely what hurt WoW.
WoW is an MMO. Why confine your players to small cities on 7 zone continents, when there is an entire World for players to enjoy? That design decision is what irrevocably damaged WoW. Instead of expanding on the Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, Blizzard went ahead and trivialized them.
Cataclysm expanded on the old world. Zones like Hyjal, Uldum, and Vashjir were absorbed into Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. Vashjir is perhaps the most underrated zone in all of WoW. Like many of you I did Hyjal over and over on my level 80s. Yet, finally experiencing the underwater world of Vashjir was far more memorable. Instead of forcing players onto small continents like Outland or Northrend, they were able to now remain connected with Azeroth, and with Horde vs. Alliance backdrop of Warcraft.
Consider some of the stuff that Cataclysm added. Worgen and Goblin. Two races that were rooted in the lore of Classic WoW. Gilneas and Lost Isles which offered some of the best starting zone experiences ever in the game. Cataclysm had more dungeons than any expansion, even bringing back favorites Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep. The dungeons in Cataclysm were varied, challenging, and rewarding. Dungeons, not Raids, are the strongest aspect of PvE in WoW.
Finally, we no longer had to run around in mismatched gear or be caught wearing the exact same raid tiers as hundreds of other players. Transmogrification opened up more customization than any other feature ever implemented. The thousands of gear drops littered throughout the world could now be worn and matched, instead of discarded as you outleveled them.
Battle for Gilneas and Twin Peaks are two of the best WoW battlegrounds. Inspired by Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin, these battlegrounds restored a lot of the glory of classic BGs. While I appreciated how experimental Wrath of the Lich King's Isle of Conquest and Strand of the Ancients were, they were also hated by a lot of the PvP community. Cataclysm also added Rated Battlegrounds, which was probably a better direction for PvP than Arena.
The reshaping of the old world zones and questlines was controversial, but Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms were improved in many ways due to questline reworks and additions. Players were back in the old world once again. The repopulation of Stormwind, Ironforge, Undercity, and Orgrimarr were good things for the game. It made it feel more like Warcraft again.
While I had my gripes with Reforging, it did offer more class customization than ever before. LFR is terrible, but the group finder system that was added during Cataclysm is something that should have always existed in the game. Allowing players on your server to search for PvE and PvP groups on your own server, so you wouldn't need to spam LFG channels.
Cataclysm had its flaws. All expansions did. Many here fail to realize that games like League of Legends became popular back then and WoW's population numbers suffered because of it. The design of Catalcysm is the direction Blizzard always should have taken. Unfortunately, it was too late by then. Expand the world, don't make it not matter anymore.
Blizzard dug their own grave for WoW by focusing too much on raiding and empty progression systems. I promise you that playing TBC and WOTLK today would be very different experiences than the ones you had 10+ years ago. We all known that those raids (BT, SWP, ICC) are better than what Cataclysm offered, but they also stole from of us the "World"in Warcraft.