classic + means different things to different people
some want horizontal progression past naxx.
some want vertical.
some no balance changes, some want minor, some want heavy.
some want LFD, transmog, and others added. some do not.
Yes...I know those are asks/requests by people in the community about Classic+.
My point was that the two things I highlight are the most basic, foundational parts of that conversation. More content and minor class tweaks.
classic + means different things to different people
some want horizontal progression past naxx.
some want vertical.
some no balance changes, some want minor, some want heavy.
some want LFD, transmog, and others added. some do not.
Yes...I know those are asks/requests by people in the community about Classic+.
My point was that the two things I highlight are the most basic, foundational parts of that conversation. More content and minor class tweaks.
i'd disagree with you on the minor class tweaks. i've seen more calls for wholesale re-balance of classes then minor tweaks.
classic + means different things to different people
some want horizontal progression past naxx.
some want vertical.
some no balance changes, some want minor, some want heavy.
some want LFD, transmog, and others added. some do not.
Yes...I know those are asks/requests by people in the community about Classic+.
My point was that the two things I highlight are the most basic, foundational parts of that conversation. More content and minor class tweaks.
i'd disagree with you on the minor class tweaks. i've seen more calls for wholesale re-balance of classes then minor tweaks.
Well then we're dealing in anecdotal experience, which doesn't account for much. It'll be more helpful to find what the community wants after the game's been out for a year, I think. People who've never played it before will have their views better formed.
Yes...I know those are asks/requests by people in the community about Classic+.
My point was that the two things I highlight are the most basic, foundational parts of that conversation. More content and minor class tweaks.
i'd disagree with you on the minor class tweaks. i've seen more calls for wholesale re-balance of classes then minor tweaks.
They hands down need to rebalance the entire classes, not just tweak them. I mean, you could think adding taunt to a Protection Paladin would make it balanced and call it a day, but not really.
The fact that people are so against balancing for Classic blows my mind as certain specs are literally unplayable, but 50 year old #nochanges bandwagoners will bandwagon I guess.
Yes...I know those are asks/requests by people in the community about Classic+.
My point was that the two things I highlight are the most basic, foundational parts of that conversation. More content and minor class tweaks.
i'd disagree with you on the minor class tweaks. i've seen more calls for wholesale re-balance of classes then minor tweaks.
They hands down need to rebalance the entire classes, not just tweak them. I mean, you could think adding taunt to a Protection Paladin would make it balanced and call it a day, but not really.
The fact that people are so against balancing for Classic blows my mind as certain specs are literally unplayable, but 50 year old #nochanges bandwagoners will bandwagon I guess.
because i've seen where balance leads. if you want proof - look at retail.
also - because you pro balance change guys can't even agree with each other.
some want buffs to hybrids to the point where they actually warrant a raid slot. some want buffs to the point where hybrids are competitive with a pure. some want buffs to the point where dps are equal.
but i'll debate you on this point. to start with, in your ideal situation. how balanced would you need?
if rogues, mages, hunters, and warlocks were doing 1,000 dps with full raid buffs
how much dps would the hybrids need to do?
Yes...I know those are asks/requests by people in the community about Classic+.
My point was that the two things I highlight are the most basic, foundational parts of that conversation. More content and minor class tweaks.
i'd disagree with you on the minor class tweaks. i've seen more calls for wholesale re-balance of classes then minor tweaks.
They hands down need to rebalance the entire classes, not just tweak them. I mean, you could think adding taunt to a Protection Paladin would make it balanced and call it a day, but not really.
The fact that people are so against balancing for Classic blows my mind as certain specs are literally unplayable, but 50 year old #nochanges bandwagoners will bandwagon I guess.
It's odd that someone who wants a lot of changes is very upset with the nochanges crowd, but then also won't engage in any middleground like I've laid out?
Yes...I know those are asks/requests by people in the community about Classic+.
My point was that the two things I highlight are the most basic, foundational parts of that conversation. More content and minor class tweaks.
i'd disagree with you on the minor class tweaks. i've seen more calls for wholesale re-balance of classes then minor tweaks.
They hands down need to rebalance the entire classes, not just tweak them. I mean, you could think adding taunt to a Protection Paladin would make it balanced and call it a day, but not really.
The fact that people are so against balancing for Classic blows my mind as certain specs are literally unplayable, but 50 year old #nochanges bandwagoners will bandwagon I guess.
because i've seen where balance leads. if you want proof - look at retail.
also - because you pro balance change guys can't even agree with each other.
some want buffs to hybrids to the point where they actually warrant a raid slot. some want buffs to the point where hybrids are competitive with a pure. some want buffs to the point where dps are equal.
but i'll debate you on this point. to start with, in your ideal situation. how balanced would you need?
if rogues, mages, hunters, and warlocks were doing 1,000 dps with full raid buffs
how much dps would the hybrids need to do?
It's not really about that, it's just about making the weaker specs relevant. I don't care to see a, say, Balance Druid and a Feral Druid both top the DPS meter, but to at least see them both somewhat on it. How can anyone think having a Balance Druid cast 3 Starfires and then literally auto-attack for the rest of the fight be even remotely balanced? (I know they're more relevant than that, as they've got battle-res, curse/poison remove and heals and Ferals can potentially achieve Hunter DPS if intense try-harding and very relvant gear, but you get my point.) Balancing back then was far worse than it is in retail in its current patch. Almost non-existent.
Yes...I know those are asks/requests by people in the community about Classic+.
My point was that the two things I highlight are the most basic, foundational parts of that conversation. More content and minor class tweaks.
i'd disagree with you on the minor class tweaks. i've seen more calls for wholesale re-balance of classes then minor tweaks.
They hands down need to rebalance the entire classes, not just tweak them. I mean, you could think adding taunt to a Protection Paladin would make it balanced and call it a day, but not really.
The fact that people are so against balancing for Classic blows my mind as certain specs are literally unplayable, but 50 year old #nochanges bandwagoners will bandwagon I guess.
because i've seen where balance leads. if you want proof - look at retail.
also - because you pro balance change guys can't even agree with each other.
some want buffs to hybrids to the point where they actually warrant a raid slot. some want buffs to the point where hybrids are competitive with a pure. some want buffs to the point where dps are equal.
but i'll debate you on this point. to start with, in your ideal situation. how balanced would you need?
if rogues, mages, hunters, and warlocks were doing 1,000 dps with full raid buffs
how much dps would the hybrids need to do?
It's not really about that, it's just about making the weaker specs relevant. I don't care to see a, say, Balance Druid and a Feral Druid both top the DPS meter, but to at least see them both somewhat on it. How can anyone think having a Balance Druid cast 3 Starfires and then literally auto-attack for the rest of the fight be even remotely balanced? (I know they're more relevant than that, as they've got battle-res, curse/poison remove and heals and Ferals can potentially achieve Hunter DPS if intense try-harding and very relvant gear, but you get my point.) Balancing back then was far worse than it is in retail in its current patch. Almost non-existent.
but the problem is - not everyone agrees with you.
like i said - you may be fine with hybrids doing enough dps to warrant a raid slot (like say, burning crusade), but there are those who want hybrids to be more in line with wrath, or retail.
not everyone agrees with you
And that's perfectly fine. I'm aware of the fact that people don't want certain specs to be even remotely relevant for either PVP/PVE.
not everyone agrees with you
And that's perfectly fine. I'm aware of the fact that people don't want certain specs to be even remotely relevant for either PVP/PVE.
not what i meant. but go ahead and plead ignorance.
even among the ones pro balance crowd.
you have those who want what you want (basically BC balance).
but others want MORE.
reading all of this about 'trolling votes', just look at what already exists! Old school runescape and current runescape are totally different. Yet current runescape players don't play old school just to fuck with people and votes, and even if some do, how many people are that dedicated to trolling? Why would someone who likes retail play a game for hundreds of hours just to 'troll'? At that point, if they've played hundreds of hours, they've played more than many casual players! They're literally just players at that point
You know, I brought up this exact same point in discussions about the possibility of Modern players spending months playing a game that they don't even like just to have a few cosmetic items added to their collections in a different game. And y'all thought I was crazy.
You know, I brought up this exact same point in discussions about the possibility of Modern players spending months playing a game that they don't even like just to have a few cosmetic items added to their collections in a different game. And y'all thought I was crazy.
literally had plenty of modern players say they would "if blizzard put linked rewards into classic i'd play".
the number of claims of it on the blizz forums was staggering.
all this discussion is doing is convincing me even more that changes to the game should be put to a vote. Think of it this way: would you rather have a game that never changes or adds content OR one that can eventually change if enough players agree that it should? I would rather have a game that can have consistently released new content because the alternative is a game that we may want now, but won't still want to play 5 years after phase 6.
And isn't that the point? To make a new version of Classic that can be consistently enjoyed for many, many years?
And isn't that the point? To make a new version of Classic that can be consistently enjoyed for many, many years?
no. the point, as stated many times by blizzard, was to make an authentic vanilla wow experience.
that is it.
And isn't that the point? To make a new version of Classic that can be consistently enjoyed for many, many years?
no. the point, as stated many times by blizzard, was to make an authentic vanilla wow experience.
that is it.
you're not wrong, but that distinction by blizzard is probably what made them think we wouldn't want classic in the first place. WoW was popular when it came out, but it remained popular because they could add content. The question shouldn't be should they add or not add, the question should be what gets added and how.