I have some concern with the Honor System in Vanilla WoW. As many are aware, the grind to Rank 14 typically involves Premade Battleground groups farming 10+ hours a day. Any other method for farming honor won't get you anywhere near Rank 14. The honor system measures your gains against other members of your faction, so only a small % of players are assigned to the top ranks. There is also the issue of honor from World PvP being diminished once battlegrounds are released. Ranking up in World PvP is no longer an option really, because of how much more effective Battlegrounds honor farming is. For the majority of Vanilla the battlegrounds were serverwide. This meant that players often ventured into the world while they were waiting for long queues to pop. Classic battlegrounds will be crossrealm, which will likely reduce the long queue times and lead to fewer players roaming the open world.
What are some improvements to the Honor System in Classic that could eventually be made?
What if there were two separate honor rankings. One for Battlegrounds and one for World PvP. This way players could achieve high honor rankings doing isolely World PvP. This gives players more options for ranking up, rather than just Premade battleground all day for high rankings.
How do you all feel about changing the Ranking System to static honor values that are not based on the performance of other members of your faction? This way anyone could eventually achieve Rank 14 if they grinded enough. Rank 14 would require a certain maximum amount of honor earned, and once it was reached, a player would earn the ranking.
What are some improvements to the Honor System in Classic that could eventually be made?
Either you change it right out of the gate, our you don't change it. It wont be fair for the people who earn it the hard way just to have it nerfed in difficulty later on.
What are some improvements to the Honor System in Classic that could eventually be made?
Either you change it right out of the gate, our you don't change it. It wont be fair for the people who earn it the hard way just to have it nerfed in difficulty later on.
Would creating a second Honor Rank system for World PvP be a problem? Classic WoW PvP devolves into a 24/7 WSG Premade fest. If you don't play that way then you are stuck at Rank 10. Is World PvP not a drastic selling point of Classic? What is the point if you can't even progress doing it once Battlegrounnds are released?
What is the point
Some people play for fun.
Would creating a second Honor Rank system for World PvP be a problem? Classic WoW PvP devolves into a 24/7 WSG Premade fest. If you don't play that way then you are stuck at Rank 10. Is World PvP not a drastic selling point of Classic? What is the point if you can't even progress doing it once Battlegrounnds are released?
This isn't my idea haha. You're supposed to be sharing an opinion with us. If youre asking if two honor systems should exist simultaneously, no, I think that would be stupid. But I would be willing to hear you out on how this could be good. I'm not sure how you could balance this without invalidating BG's and rewriting the game. Players will always go for honor per hour. If the best honor per hour is BG's, premades will farm BG's and ruin pug teams. If world PvP offers the best honor per hour, players will camp flight paths and kill the lowest level players that still give honor. This is the game. This is how players will play. This is how I will play. I'm not sure how you will change this without changing the entire game... In fact, from all your previous suggestion, you would destroy the game by trying to change it. Your proposed changes are historically awful.
Back in the days of yore, I enjoyed doing world PvP while I waited for queues to pop. It was a great way to increase my honor gains against my peers who preferred to sit in town and wait for the BG to start. When cross-realm BGs became a thing I was super happy about it because it meant I didn't have to wait 45 min for WSG to start. Of course, by that time I was already geared and wasn't as focused on world PvP as much. I feel that cross realm BGs will certainly have an impact on world PvP and that kinda bums me out. I also feel that Blizzard did this so that it would appeal to the masses who want faster BG queue times while also creating the second order effect of diminishing world PvP which helps negate PvErs getting ganked all the time.
I was initially for cross-realm BGs but have since changed my mind based on everything I've mentioned. Cross-realm BGs are (and were) the first step in removing people from 90% of Azeroth and instead populating the major cities with everyone standing around the battlemaster.
Edit: How does this change the race for R14? Not much. Those who are invested in grinding out honor will do it the same as it was done before only now they will less time sitting around. It'll still be the BG farm groups pushing the highest honor numbers regardless if they are doing 1 BG an hour (2005) or 5 (2019). The gains are relative to how often you get a chance to kill people when compared to your peers who are also farming.
Back in the days of yore, I enjoyed doing world PvP while I waited for queues to pop. It was a great way to increase my honor gains against my peers who preferred to sit in town and wait for the BG to start. When cross-realm BGs became a thing I was super happy about it because it meant I didn't have to wait 45 min for WSG to start. Of course, by that time I was already geared and wasn't as focused on world PvP as much. I feel that cross realm BGs will certainly have an impact on world PvP and that kinda bums me out. I also feel that Blizzard did this so that it would appeal to the masses who want faster BG queue times while also creating the second order effect of diminishing world PvP which helps negate PvErs getting ganked all the time.
I was initially for cross-realm BGs but have since changed my mind based on everything I've mentioned. Cross-realm BGs are (and were) the first step in removing people from 90% of Azeroth and instead populating the major cities with everyone standing around the battlemaster.
Edit: How does this change the race for R14? Not much. Those who are invested in grinding out honor will do it the same as it was done before only now they will less time sitting around. It'll still be the BG farm groups pushing the highest honor numbers regardless if they are doing 1 BG an hour (2005) or 5 (2019). The gains are relative to how often you get a chance to kill people when compared to your peers who are also farming.
Great post Cletus. I agree that Crossrealm battlegrounds are not appropriate for Classic. We didn't get them until the very end of Vanilla, and we all see the type of behavior they fostered. I played Horde and remember the 30minute + queue times, but it helped develop the dueling scene outside of Orgrimmar, as well as put more players in the world. Crossrealm BGs gave way to the type of playstyles that defined the expansions and destroyed server community.
Would creating a second Honor Rank system for World PvP be a problem? Classic WoW PvP devolves into a 24/7 WSG Premade fest. If you don't play that way then you are stuck at Rank 10. Is World PvP not a drastic selling point of Classic? What is the point if you can't even progress doing it once Battlegrounnds are released?
This isn't my idea haha. You're supposed to be sharing an opinion with us. If youre asking if two honor systems should exist simultaneously, no, I think that would be stupid. But I would be willing to hear you out on how this could be good. I'm not sure how you could balance this without invalidating BG's and rewriting the game. Players will always go for honor per hour. If the best honor per hour is BG's, premades will farm BG's and ruin pug teams. If world PvP offers the best honor per hour, players will camp flight paths and kill the lowest level players that still give honor. This is the game. This is how players will play. This is how I will play. I'm not sure how you will change this without changing the entire game... In fact, from all your previous suggestion, you would destroy the game by trying to change it. Your proposed changes are historically awful.
Players will pursue the system that gives them the most honor. I agree with that. However, there will be players achieving the highest rankings in both World PvP and Battleground system. It doesn't matter how fast someone is ranking up doing World PvP, because their progression doesn't affect somebody ranking up in Battlegrounds. The players ranking up in World PvP aren't directly competing with players ranking up in Battlegrounds. If ranking up in World PvP becomes too competitive, then a player can choose to rank up in Battlegrounds instead since there would be less competition. So I don't see how it is an issue. Players rank up relative to the competition. World PvP has saturation due to limited zones, while Battlegrounds are an number of instances and players.
The big issue with Classic is that once Battlegrounds are released, players can no longer viably rank up in World PvP. Having two systems allows players who prefer World PvP to be able to rank up doing it. I understand why there are Battlegrounds in Classic. It is partly so that casual players can enjoy PvP on more equal and forgiving terms. That is fine. This way World PvP and Battlegrounds can co-exist.
While I was unemployed I managed to get Lieutenant Commander (10) on Lights Hope private server.
I think that the entire system is unfair and unless you have literally nothing better to do than to queue and sit in battlegrounds for every second that the server remains active then you will not achieve rank 13 or 14. It's not worth disregarding your health over getting high rank because there will always be a group of people with heads wired different, nothing better to do, no real life or job and probably regretting it later.
Just play because you want to have fun.
I don't see any alternative to the system that players would be happy with.
While I was unemployed I managed to get Lieutenant Commander (10) on Lights Hope private server.
I think that the entire system is unfair and unless you have literally nothing better to do than to queue and sit in battlegrounds for every second that the server remains active then you will not achieve rank 13 or 14. It's not worth disregarding your health over getting high rank because there will always be a group of people with heads wired different, nothing better to do, no real life or job and probably regretting it later.
Just play because you want to have fun.
I don't see any alternative to the system that players would be happy with.
Pretty much. The system is literally made for people to play 12 hours a day.
I don't see how you would solve that without making people "upset".
While I was unemployed I managed to get Lieutenant Commander (10) on Lights Hope private server.
I think that the entire system is unfair and unless you have literally nothing better to do than to queue and sit in battlegrounds for every second that the server remains active then you will not achieve rank 13 or 14. It's not worth disregarding your health over getting high rank because there will always be a group of people with heads wired different, nothing better to do, no real life or job and probably regretting it later.
Just play because you want to have fun.
I don't see any alternative to the system that players would be happy with.
Pretty much. The system is literally made for people to play 12 hours a day.
I don't see how you would solve that without making people "upset".
Well you could make it so that players need a certain amount of total honor for each rank. That way players can eventually reach the top rank if they play enough.
Well you could make it so that players need a certain amount of total honor for earch rank. That way players can eventually reach the top rank if they play enough.
This is what retail WoW is. Legendary items, top PvP ranks, etc. aren't anything special if everybody can have them. When everyone is special, no one is special.
Well you could make it so that players need a certain amount of total honor for earch rank. That way players can eventually reach the top rank if they play enough.
This is what retail WoW is. Legendary items, top PvP ranks, etc. aren't anything special if everybody can have them. When everyone is special, no one is special.
I don't think that the system should be changed to where its based on cumulative honor earned. The issue with the system is that you are forced to premade battlegrounds to reach high honor ranks. I am suggesting that there are two honor ranking systems. One for World PvP and one for Battlegrounds. If you aren't doing premade battlegrounds 15 hours a day then you are pretty much stuck at Rank 10/11. That becomes really boring. Players should be able to reach rank 14 doing World PvP. It is better to give players more options. World PvP rewards basically nothing once BGs are released, because you are competing against players spamming crossrealm battlegrounds. It is one of the biggest issues with the game.
I don't think that the system should be changed to where its based on cumulative honor earned. The issue with the system is that you are forced to premade battlegrounds to reach high honor ranks. I am suggesting that there are two honor ranking systems. One for World PvP and one for Battlegrounds. If you aren't doing premade battlegrounds 15 hours a day then you are pretty much stuck at Rank 10/11. That becomes really boring. Players should be able to reach rank 14 doing World PvP. It is better to give players more options. World PvP rewards basically nothing once BGs are released, because you are competing against players spamming crossrealm battlegrounds. It is one of the biggest issues with the game.
I don't fully disagree with your dual system idea but is it fair to reward someone with R 13/14 if they farmed level 50's to get it versus someone who spent most of their waking hours stacking bodies against other level 60's. I loooooove world PvP but I don't think that alone should warrant the same result as a combined effort (world and BG PvP). I feel that if someone is completely serious about the grind to R13/14 then it becomes imperative to go to a low population server. Preferably one where you are the outnumbered faction. Since you are competing against your server peers, this will give you the most bang for your buck in world PvP and more likely that you will be grouping with the small community of other BG-grinders for that pool of honor and get you to a desired rank much faster. After that, swap servers to live the high-population lifestyle. That's my plan anyway.
I would imagine what you brought up is available in retail and that's a good place for it to stay.