Legend.
Wait for it
RedridgeGnoll you were supposed to respond with "dary"
You were the chosen one man. ><
Ranking up in World PvP wouldn't necessarily be easier it would just be another option.
It already is an option, sure you can't get to Rank 14, but you can still participate and gain honor from World PvP - it's just that the reward for World PvP isn't ranks, it is enjoyment, fun, payback, egotism, whatever you want to get from it. As soon as you try to incentivize it, people will min/max and ruin (see: change) it - it will no longer be organic or "fun". Don't try to change world PvP, it's already one of the best aspects of Classic WoW. Leave well enough alone.
Not everything in WoW has to hand out rewards, not every aspect of WoW has to be optimal. That is what makes it different, unique and flexible to your playstyle. Why are you trying to change Classic WoW into Retail WoW?
Ranking up in World PvP wouldn't necessarily be easier it would just be another option.
It already is an option, sure you can't get to Rank 14, but you can still participate and gain honor from World PvP - it's just that the reward for World PvP isn't ranks, it is enjoyment, fun, payback, egotism, whatever you want to get from it. As soon as you try to incentivize it, people will min/max and ruin (see: change) it - it will no longer be organic or "fun". Don't try to change world PvP, it's already one of the best aspects of Classic WoW. Leave well enough alone.
Not everything in WoW has to hand out rewards, not every aspect of WoW has to be optimal. That is what makes it different, unique and flexible to your playstyle. Why are you trying to change Classic WoW into Retail WoW?
Imagine if doing Battlegrounds gave no rewards.
@RedridgeGnoll you were supposed to respond with "dary"
You were the chosen one man. ><
I was until I was consumed by nightmares of my Gnoll wife dying in childbirth.
Imagine if doing Battlegrounds gave no rewards.
But they do give rewards? WTF are you even going on about? Battlegrounds exist, and are incentivized by offering the highest return of Honor/gear - but can only offer a limited return on interesting gameplay. Once you've done 100 WSGs, you've seen it all. After 100 WPvP fights, you will always still have unique and different encounters. It doesn't need to offer high honor/hour to be fun/enjoyable/worthwhile/emotional rewarding. Battlegrounds get boring, but they have their own offer of high honor/hour.
Battlegrounds exist, they have a purpose and they are utilised as such.
World PvP exists, it has a purpose and it is utilised as such.
I'm not sure the issue here. Are you sure you want to play Classic WoW?
The Battleground system makes World PvP honor grinding worthless? Are you not aware of this?
Not entirely. Some players on private servers would ask their friends to queue them up while they camped certain populated areas/flight masters. But I guess you wouldn't know that since it's clear to everyone here all you know about PvP is probably coming from Reddit and the game manual.
It's like saying driving cars defeats the purpose of walking to work. No - it doesn't, they're two fucking different things. Sure that cars are going to get you to work a lot faster than walking there, but there's a fuckload of things you can do while walking and it's not the government's business to give you incentives to use your two feet to go ahead and get around places.
Once players stop getting reward for doing World PvP it happens less and less.
It's the same fucking thing with dungeons, raids, BGs and so forth.
When Phase 3 happens World PvP honor grinding is irrelevant.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that World PvP becomes irrelevant. Please get it out of your retail-minded head that there needs to be an incentive for every stupid thing that players want to do out in the world. I have hundreds of people who can tell you otherwise.
Classic WoW is about rewarding players for being in the open world.
It's not just about that but it even so it does this by rewarding those with gathering professions who can gather rare materials, it rewards those who are bold enough to venture and quest in certain dangerous/populated areas, it rewards those who can group up and deny the enemy faction access to certain rewards etc. You still have to fucking walk your ass to raids and instances. And get buffs to along with them. There's plenty of rewards out in the open world.
Phase 3 will involves Premade groups stomping randoms in crossrealm battlegrounds all day. They won't even bother to leave the Capital Cities, for fear they might miss a battleground queue pop. Do you understand that once many players reach rank 10 or 11 their progression ends unless they are in some premade clique.
I don't give a fuck about battlegrounds, but if I did I would probably look into becoming a better player at PvP and perhaps joining these premade groups instead of crying like a retail fanboy for Ashran on Classic WoW pretending it's not about me being too scared/busy/unskilled etc. to join the rank grind but also wanting to be rewarded for doing PvP on my own terms, for gathering flowes and not having to face an equal number of players who might be better than me.
I am suggesting adding a second honor system. One that is only for World PvP. What are the downsides? Nobody has answered this.
Just a few reasons off the top of my head.
No changes
We don't want changes to the original game. You can keep your fucking Ashrans and loot incentives for every stupid fucking thing casuals do in retail. The purpose of Classic WoW isn't to cater to casuals, it's to recreate the game as it was in patch 1.12 to the best of their ability. For everything else there are private servers.
Bad philosophy
We don't need more incentives to go out and do every single thing in this game. This sort of philosophy is something which contributed to the state of how World of Warcraft is today.
Unforeseen impact
Adding any "incentives" have the potential of impacting other areas of the game, PvE in particular. Items you can add can either upset the already established progression of items ("why should I bother with MC and BWL when I can just do Ashran for 30 minutes and get my epics") or even simplify certain encounters in PvE ("yeah it's so much easier to tank Sapphiron with that shield you get from Ashran, thank gods"). I can't even begin to think of potential ramifications in PvP.
Unintended consequences
Just like with Ashran, which started out from a simple and similar idea of throwing incentives for players to engage in some World-PvP, any stupid thing you've proposed so far would backfire if the incentive was high enough.
See, with Ashran, there were two types of groups/premades you could quickly get into - the ones who were farming the events for Honor, and they would unequivocally avoid the enemy faction entirely and just do chests/events/all these stupid thing you've proposed yourself - and the ones who were farming players for titles, and they would unequivocally seek out the enemy faction and do their best to camp/tag/kill as many.
No, it looked nothing like you'd imagine, it wasn't good World-PvP, everyone hated Ashran and everyone thought Ashran was shit. That's why you don't see it in the game anymore.
RedridgeGnoll The thing you have to understand is, even if you're idea is absolutely perfect in terms of improving the PvP system for Classic, people still don't want it.
The people who genuinely want to get to rank 14 will get it. The people who are only interested in getting it won't get it. That's how the game is, how it was, and how people want it to be.
The PVE equivalent is like getting Naxx weapons or getting Atiesh, it's not supposed to be easy
Nymis explains this better than I can, it's a good summary of why this is a retarded idea. OP has this retarded idea that players will go out into his outdoor wonderland and play by his ideas and not just exploit the path of least resistance.
> There will be air drops and special chests and shit
Then players will ignore each other and your PvP zone becomes a game of people ignoring each other for chests
> Then the air drops and chests won't be worth anything
Then why are they there
> Players will decide to not farm the most efficient method of gathering honor points
No, they're going to camp whatever gains the most honor points and all other systems become invalid.
> But you can still do PvP content that isn't the most efficient
I feel like we're getting somewhere now. Yes, you absolutely can just go outside and PvP. We don't need retarded retail ideas dumped into classic so you can have an easier time getting gear you didn't earn.
But if we are entertaining retarded ideas, then I think this 'I want top rank PvP gear but I don't want to put in the work so I want an easier way to get it' idea could be expanded.
Are you aware that PvE content fails to grant PvP rewards? 40 man PvE RAID content makes it too hard to grind honor points. Why not add PvP nodes in dungeons and raids? Enemy mobs and bosses in dungeons and raids could drop 'PvP supplies' that you cash in back in town for some sweet honor points.
Are you aware that spending time levelling your professions steals time away from getting PvP rewards? Perhaps every profession level point should also reward honor points. The faction leader could send you participation trophies in the mail for 'strengthening the faction', which could be cashed in back in town for some of dat dere sweet sweet PvP participation points.
Are you aware that taking flight paths steals valuable time away from grinding sweet sweet PvP rewards? Perhaps every time you land, your character could be rewarded with a full PvP rank for participating in the flight path experience.
Are you aware that spending too much time online is bad for you because you could neglect your personal health and responsibilities? The game could reward you for staying logged out for 20+ hours at a time with honor points for honoring the outside world. This could allow people to reach rank 14 by engaging in real world PvP by rewarding people from competing against other people at work in a job.
Apol has a good point. Naxx weapons are too hard to get, too. They could be added to those chests in these special PvP zones to reward people for playing them. Wouldn't that be nice? You wouldn't have to waste all that time raiding anymore.
Also the grind of getting rank 14 is the environment of PvP, when you get rank 14 you have finished. That's it there's nothing more
In pve that's the same as finishing Naxx and getting full bis items
Rank 14 is the end goal for pvp, let it stay that way
The thing with Vanilla is/was that there is no need for incentive for every activity - the activity IS the incentive. If I want to go out with a group and do world PvP, I'll go and do just that. I don't need an incentive for that, since that is my idea of fun.
You know 'fun' right? Fun has no stats, no title, no mount. Just the activity itself. This line of reasoning is exactly what lead us to Retail WoW of today where the player character receives a reward for each and every activity.
Exactly Pluuf
Also RedridgeGnoll can you please stop making new threads about trying to change the PvP system in a game that was made 15 years ago. Simply put, it won't be changed, the game is finished.
I might be getting toxic but I think I've seen at least 3 of your threads about some new PvP idea and it's really annoying me because there are some really great threads popping up that aren;t being posted in because you are flooding the fresh posts with the same thing over and over again.
This is my final post on one of your PvP threads so don't bother replying because I won't reply on your thread
Can we please stop with all this!
I am getting a headache just reading all this!
Please stop trying to fix something that isnt broken, it worked fine in Vanilla, it will work fine in Classic!
There is nothing wrong with how the honor system is in Vanilla, wanna know why? It's Vanilla, not the best but it works!
And want to know how hard it is to get? Very hard and only 1 maybe 2 dont remember, get it a week? 52 weeks in a year....lets just bump this to 100!
So 100 people on the server will get Rank 14 a year and how many people are on the server? 3000, I really dont know just throwing a number...
Thats a long time for everyone to get rank 14 and if they actually want to go through the grind! So no we dont need more people to get it and no we dont need an alternative to getting it.
And the part that makes me boil is..."im rank 14, I have no reason to pvp or even play wow anymore (I have no incentive to play)"....? Really? Why do people do this grind? Sure for the recognition, but for the gear and weapons, I guess they just put that stuff on their wow mantle and move on....might as well get a t-shirt for getting rank 14 saying "I PvPed Alot" instead of gear and weapons. My friend did this, and sure he took a quick break after because he was burnt, but he came back and still pvped alot, not as much as before but alot! He did the grind to get the weapon to use in raids and completely trash people in the world and battlegrounds
Wow was never about get to your goal and stop playing it was a game to have fun with friends...Need to remember this game is an MMORPG...something modern wow forgot about....sure your playing with people but it seems to play like a single player game than an actual multi-player game. Experience the game with friends and have fun! No one is stopping you for rushing to your goals but the game wasn't designed for that!
I am going to pull an Apol and bounce!
First of all Ashran is one of the dumbest things ever. I feel badly for anyone who even entered it. I won't even address the 1000 reason why it was stupid. In Retail WoW the best rewards come from doing Arena. Honor gear does not really matter.
One aspect that separates Classic from Retail is the open world. The open world is rewarding in Classic, that is why players venture out of Capital Cities. The release of battlegrounds makes PvP in the open world unrewarding. This has many ramifications on the game. Most players do not play WoW for the sake of "fun", they play to earn rewards.
Comparing my suggestions to what exists in the expansions or Retail is nonsense. The Treasure Chest and Frontier ideas need refining, but you can't justify comparisons to what existed on retail. The reward systems on retail are completely out of wack and have been for a long time. In this thread I was suggesting an alternative way for players to rank up, so they would not be forced to premade battleground nonstop. I do not see how having a separate honor system for World PvP would be bad. Both systems would be competitive and popular, because of the potential rewards. The gear from both systems could have the same stats, but colored differently.
Many posters keep saying that players will choose the path of least resistance to rank up. Having two honor systems means that there is more than one path. Players would have the option to rank up using either system. I don't see the issue with this. Because Classic has only one honor system, players choose the easiest path which is battlegrounds. Having a second honor system fixes that.