I mean people spent alot of time back them grinding
This. As much as we hold Classic dear, there will be an incredible lack of content to keep players interested. What used to take guilds months will be walked through in a few short days and for some guilds, in a few hours. There wont be content gatekeeping guilds for months on end. There wont be unkillable bosses like cthun. Removing the grinding aspect of PvP is advocating for the removal of content in a game that is desperately short on content.
I know most people will have a knee-jerk reaction to me saying that Classic lacks content, so I'll try to be clear. While Classic boasts a ton of content in contrast to other expansions, anytime we repeat content that we have already done and optimize our routes, the difficulty of completing said content becomes more and more manageable. This would be no different to any other expansion. By revisiting Classic and going through a world that is already explored, we can expedite our routes and minimize our time investment. So while Classic technically has a lot of content, that content will not take players anywhere near the time to complete it. Removing content, in this case a massive grind, is not a good idea.
Also running to parallel systems that offer the same reward at different levels of difficulty undermines the integrity of the game and is shit.
That is why I am advocating for a World PvP system, because PvP content can be replayable. There are like 20 contested zones and endless World PvP possibilities. However, a lot of that potential is wasted once Battlegrounds are released. Besides, WSG, AB, and AV are 15 years old. When you devalue World PvP, you take away a lot of content in the game.
But these contested zones are for leveling pretty much. That's why endgame PvP is in BGs.
I mean people spent alot of time back them grinding
This. As much as we hold Classic dear, there will be an incredible lack of content to keep players interested. What used to take guilds months will be walked through in a few short days and for some guilds, in a few hours. There wont be content gatekeeping guilds for months on end. There wont be unkillable bosses like cthun. Removing the grinding aspect of PvP is advocating for the removal of content in a game that is desperately short on content.
I know most people will have a knee-jerk reaction to me saying that Classic lacks content, so I'll try to be clear. While Classic boasts a ton of content in contrast to other expansions, anytime we repeat content that we have already done and optimize our routes, the difficulty of completing said content becomes more and more manageable. This would be no different to any other expansion. By revisiting Classic and going through a world that is already explored, we can expedite our routes and minimize our time investment. So while Classic technically has a lot of content, that content will not take players anywhere near the time to complete it. Removing content, in this case a massive grind, is not a good idea.
Also running to parallel systems that offer the same reward at different levels of difficulty undermines the integrity of the game and is shit.
That is why I am advocating for a World PvP system, because PvP content can be replayable. There are like 20 contested zones and endless World PvP possibilities. However, a lot of that potential is wasted once Battlegrounds are released. Besides, WSG, AB, and AV are 15 years old. When you devalue World PvP, you take away a lot of content in the game.
But these contested zones are for leveling pretty much. That's why endgame PvP is in BGs.
That is a good point. However there are a lot of contested zones with level 60 content. In Classic WoW you kill level 60s in Blackrock or Hearthglen only to earn meager honor. Killing players for little to no reward in World PvP is a bad system.
That is a good point. However there are a lot of contested zones with level 60 content. In Classic WoW you kill level 60s in Blackrock or Hearthglen only to earn meager honor. Killing players for little to no reward in World PvP is a bad system.
I never played vanilla, but as I can see Blizzard never intended World PvP to be a fully-fledged PvP mode. People mostly remember it as thrilling experience while leveling or just passing through some zones and they will still PvP in the world for the fun of it, including me.
That is a good point. However there are a lot of contested zones with level 60 content. In Classic WoW you kill level 60s in Blackrock or Hearthglen only to earn meager honor. Killing players for little to no reward in World PvP is a bad system.
I never played vanilla, but as I can see Blizzard never intended World PvP to be a fully-fledged PvP mode. People mostly remember it as thrilling experience while leveling or just passing through some zones and they will still PvP in the world for the fun of it, including me.
It becomes less thrilling when the reward is irrelevant. Crossrealm battlegrounds means players standing in Ironforge and Orgrimmar queueing nonstop. That is what retail is.
RedridgeGnoll Seems like you glazed over an important point that Nyxt made.
When I started playing battlegrounds were the way to rank and it was a funner and better way to rank.
World PvP is in my mind and how it paned out in Vanilla was a past time event...
It was to have fun, it was cause chaos to the other faction, it was being a dick sometimes and helping your allys getting jumped.
It was spontaneous! To me thats what made it World PvP.
I wouldnt want World PvP be a way of ranking because then World PvP would lose its soul and lose the fun of it.
It would be a chore and a job which it shouldnt.
The scrappy, improvised wPvP you seem to be interested in has its character because there are no rewards. As soon as you pollute it with the honor system it will become organized and systematic just like premade bgs — fighting will mostly happen in zones with the closest graveyards and the shortest flights to major cities (i.e. Hillsbrad). There will be more consistent and organized raids run by cliques which produce more honor per hour than PUGs flailing around. We will undoubtedly see this happen in phase 2.
@RedridgeGnoll Seems like you glazed over an important point that @Nyxt made.
When I started playing battlegrounds were the way to rank and it was a funner and better way to rank.
World PvP is in my mind and how it paned out in Vanilla was a past time event...
It was to have fun, it was cause chaos to the other faction, it was being a dick sometimes and helping your allys getting jumped.
It was spontaneous! To me thats what made it World PvP.
I wouldnt want World PvP be a way of ranking because then World PvP would lose its soul and lose the fun of it.
It would be a chore and a job which it shouldnt.
The scrappy, improvised wPvP you seem to be interested in has its character because there are no rewards. As soon as you pollute it with the honor system it will become organized and systematic just like premade bgs — fighting will mostly happen in zones with the closest graveyards and the shortest flights to major cities (i.e. Hillsbrad). There will be more consistent and organized raids run by cliques which produce more honor per hour than PUGs flailing around. We will undoubtedly see this happen in phase 2.
The reason world pvp was popular was because players were new to the game and mmos in general. Nowadays players care about rewards more than ever. If you take away the reward for doing world pvp, then less players will do it.
I am well aware of the shortcomings of "organized" world pvp. Camping flightmasters, farming levelers etc.. that is why blizzard added battlegrounds. Giving players the option to do bgs was probably healthy for world pvp and the server. The problem is that battlegrounds kill the major incentive to world pvp. I am suggesting having a world pvp rank system, so that players who prefer that playstyle can continue to progress doing so.
That is a good point. However there are a lot of contested zones with level 60 content. In Classic WoW you kill level 60s in Blackrock or Hearthglen only to earn meager honor. Killing players for little to no reward in World PvP is a bad system.
I never played vanilla, but as I can see Blizzard never intended World PvP to be a fully-fledged PvP mode. People mostly remember it as thrilling experience while leveling or just passing through some zones and they will still PvP in the world for the fun of it, including me.
It becomes less thrilling when the reward is irrelevant. Crossrealm battlegrounds means players standing in Ironforge and Orgrimmar queueing nonstop. That is what retail is.
I get your point, but Blizzard sees rewarding and competitive PvP only in form of BGs. Your idea or anything else that will encourage World PvP might be good for modern WoW or other games, but there's no changing that in Classic WoW. I personally don't like and don't want to grind to Rank 14. But people who will get there will be rightfully strong and great and we will admire them :D
We have this open world in Classic WoW with so much potential, then Blizzard adds Crossrealm Battlegrounds that you can join from a capital city. Look where that led us to.
I am suggesting having a world pvp rank system, so that players who prefer that playstyle can continue to progress doing so.
Yes, I heard you the first 12 times. Having BGs and wPvP simultaneously doesn't solve any of the problems you just admitted to.
I am suggesting having a world pvp rank system, so that players who prefer that playstyle can continue to progress doing so.
Yes, I heard you the first 12 times. Having BGs and wPvP simultaneously doesn't solve any of the problems you just admitted to.
How can you say that? There would be two systems. One for ranking up in World PvP. One for ranking up in Battlegrounds. Both systems allow players to reach the max ranks. Ranking in one system does not affect ranking in the other. What downside is there?
In Classic WoW, Phase 2 will make World PvP the only way to rank up. Then in Phase 3 Battlegrounds become the only way to rank up. Why not have two ways to rank up instead of just one? It adds content to Classic.
Why do you think I post all these topics?
Considering that you have failed to convince anybody into agreeing with any of these ideas yet push on regardless, I'm just going to assume you're shitposting to farm post count. Kind of like I am :lol:
Killing players for little to no reward in World PvP is a bad system.
I never played vanilla, but as I can see Blizzard never intended World PvP to be a fully-fledged PvP mode. Bingo!
World PvP wasn't a system with no rewards!!!
Your reward was killing that scum bag rogue that ganked you at level 40!
Or killing that stupid Warrior that charged you and stunned you while his jerk Priest friend mind controlled you into the lava!
Or killing that best known warlock that kills everyone in searing gorge and thinking your better than him!
Or helping out a level 26 ally that is getting jumped by a level 60 and camping him while he is leveling!
Or battling it out at Tarren Mill, fighting 15 level 60's, which all started by that 60 jumping and camping that ally level 26 leveling!
Or just killing the other faction because you hate Alliance or hate Horde
Your reward is enjoyment!
Your reward is fun!
Your reward is being honored by helping out your allies getting ganked!
Your reward is have the other faction loath you and seek you in the world!
Your reward is having a reputation, whether it is good or bad!
Don't (don't know if we can curse) F* with World PvP!
Killing players for little to no reward in World PvP is a bad system.
I never played vanilla, but as I can see Blizzard never intended World PvP to be a fully-fledged PvP mode. Bingo!
World PvP wasn't a system with no rewards!!!
Your reward was killing that scum bag rogue that ganked you at level 40!
Or killing that stupid Warrior that charged you and stunned you while his jerk Priest friend mind controlled you into the lava!
Or killing that best known warlock that kills everyone in searing gorge and thinking your better than him!
Or helping out a level 26 ally that is getting jumped by a level 60 and camping him while he is leveling!
Or battling it out at Tarren Mill, fighting 15 level 60's, which all started by that 60 jumping and camping that ally level 26 leveling!
Your reward is enjoyment!
Your reward is fun!
Your reward is being honored by helping out your allies getting ganked!
Your reward is have the other faction loath you and seek you in the world!
Your reward is having a reputation, whether it is good or bad!
That is nostalgia talking. Take off the goggles. When battlegrounds came out, World PvP went into the dustbin pretty much. It will likely even more the case in Classic. The lack of reward is one of the reasons WPVP died in the expansions. Players realized the reward was low honor.
Why do you think I post all these topics?
Considering that you have failed to convince anybody into agreeing with any of these ideas yet push on regardless, I'm just going to assume you're shitposting to farm post count. Kind of like I am :lol:
Blizzard tried to improve World PvP after they introduced BGs. The Silithus and EPL PvP objectives were examples of that. They failed terribly. I have been making suggestions that will improve the state of World PvP once battlegrounds are released. I still do not see the downside of having two honor system??
Nymis already typed up why and I'm not going to waste words just re-stating what he already wrote a page ago. So let's just leave the main points here again.
No changes
Bad philosophy
Unforeseen impact
Unintended consequences
Game is fine as it is.