but the game still looks and feels like you’re playing World of Warcraft from 2006
Patch 1.12. You say you had involvement in the development of Vanilla WoW. Please elaborate.
Edit: words.
RedridgeGnoll I'd like to see kills be worth more. It should be a viable tactic to rank up chasing those pesky Grand Marshals out in the wild. But what can you do, the system is flawed. Honor from killing players in the world doesn't even compare to bg farming. That being said, a parallel honor system would be nothing more but a band-aid fix ignoring the real issues in the system.
IMO the greatest flaw of the system lies in the very nature of honor farm: honor gain from bg objectives is king. In my experience, it's irrelevant who you face when your bg queue pops, the only thing that matters is how much AB points or WSG flags or AV objectives you can grind per hour. Not only do those objectives award bonus honor at the end of the bg, but you also get tokens for the repeatable quests from winning or losing, which further amplifies this issue.
Thus, one thing I'd change is make the bg objective honor scale depending on the average rank of the enemy team, and make the game try match-make you against enemy teams roughly around your rank. The most efficient way to earn honor should absolutely not be curb-stomping green-geared players in 5 min AB games, but rather actually playing the game against worthy opponents regardless of how long the games take. For example, beating an enemy team with an avg rank of 10 in a 30 minute game should always give you substantially more honor than crushing a team with an avg rank of 3 in just 5 minutes six times in a row. Of course, you could always just spam 5 min ABs against low-ranked players all day (by forming a premade with low-ranked players for example), as long as you're willing to pour in the extra time. I know, this suggestion would change the dynamic of the honor grind completely and it would not be vanilla like. "Like why not just put rbgs in the game lololol!" But that's not my point. I believe the original honor system had potential despite of being poorly implemented. Too bad it was abandoned with TBC.
Just my 2 cents. Personally, I'm happy as long as I get to play the game, but what do you guys think?
I agree, RedridgeGnoll is extremely out of touch with what Blizzard's goal is with Classic. He's a staple case of a vocal minority that's trying to change a game to what HE wants, not what the majority of players want.
I agree, RedridgeGnoll is extremely out of touch with what Blizzard's goal is with Classic. He's a staple case of a vocal minority that's trying to change a game to what HE wants, not what the majority of players want.
You are no different than the people on the WoW forums who fought with me during the TBC Beta when I ridiculed the changes. Stuff like Crossrealm battlegrounds are what led us on the road to retail.
@RedridgeGnoll I'd like to see kills be worth more. It should be a viable tactic to rank up chasing those pesky Grand Marshals out in the wild. But what can you do, the system is flawed. Honor from killing players in the world doesn't even compare to bg farming. That being said, a parallel honor system would be nothing more but a band-aid fix ignoring the real issues in the system.
IMO the greatest flaw of the system lies in the very nature of honor farm: honor gain from bg objectives is king. In my experience, it's irrelevant who you face when your bg queue pops, the only thing that matters is how much AB points or WSG flags or AV objectives you can grind per hour. Not only do those objectives award bonus honor at the end of the bg, but you also get tokens for the repeatable quests from winning or losing, which further amplifies this issue.
Thus, one thing I'd change is make the bg objective honor scale depending on the average rank of the enemy team, and make the game try match-make you against enemy teams roughly around your rank. The most efficient way to earn honor should absolutely not be curb-stomping green-geared players in 5 min AB games, but rather actually playing the game against worthy opponents regardless of how long the games take. For example, beating an enemy team with an avg rank of 10 in a 30 minute game should always give you substantially more honor than crushing a team with an avg rank of 3 in just 5 minutes six times in a row. Of course, you could always just spam 5 min ABs against low-ranked players all day (by forming a premade with low-ranked players for example), as long as you're willing to pour in the extra time. I know, this suggestion would change the dynamic of the honor grind completely and it would not be vanilla like. "Like why not just put rbgs in the game lololol!" But that's not my point. I believe the original honor system had potential despite of being poorly implemented. Too bad it was abandoned with TBC.
Just my 2 cents. Personally, I'm happy as long as I get to play the game, but what do you guys think?
Great post Verychill! Winning battlegrounds gave 3x as much honor as killing players in battlegrounds. This was partly due to the diminishing returns of killing the same player over and over. It is a reason AV was unpopular. It gave less honor, because player kills eventually gave no honor over the course of a long battle. Battlegrounds for most of Classic were serverwide, meaning players often had long queue times. This led to players roaming contested territory to bolster the honor gains while they waited in queue. In Classic we will have crossrealm battlegrounds, which means players are unlikely to even leave the capital cities. Winning 5 minute battlegrounds against green geared players is what ends up happening. How is that a good thing?
It is true that Honor in World PvP was too low. Blizzard actually increased it in a later patch, but it still made little difference. They could have just increased Honor a lot more, and made World PvP the fastest way to reach Rank 14. However, it would force players to participate in the system which gave the fastest honor. Players trying to reach Rank 14 would be forced to World PvP, if in fact that was the most efficient way to honor grind.
The reason I am suggesting having two honor systems, one for world pvp and one for battlegrounds, is because players would be able to reach rank 14 doing both. Players wouldn't be forced to farm the system that gave the fastest honor, because acheiving Rank 14 would be possible in World PvP and Battlegrounds. Otherwise, if you only have one Honor system, then players feel obligated to Rank up using the most efficient way to farm honor. If World PvP honor was increased, then players would have to choose which type of honor farming method was faster. In Classic there is no choice, because Crossrealm Battlegrounds are by far the fastest way to hit Rank 14. If there were two separate systems, then players wouldn't be forced to choose or change systems, because both systems would enable players to reach Rank 14. World PvP in Classic WoW offers almost no reward once battlegrounds are released. That is a huge issue.
RedridgeGnoll At one point you were saying that there were arenas in Classic, could you please elaborate on that? I haven't played Vanilla myself so I don't have awarness of the patch niches.
@RedridgeGnoll At one point you were saying that there were arenas in Classic, could you please elaborate on that? I haven't played Vanilla myself so I don't have awarness of the patch niches.
In a TBC pre-patch you coud queue for Arena. So there were level 60s doing arena.
@RedridgeGnoll At one point you were saying that there were arenas in Classic, could you please elaborate on that? I haven't played Vanilla myself so I don't have awarness of the patch niches.
If it was, it was part of the final-hour pre-patch leading into TBC. It wasn't there for any meaningful period of time at the end of vanilla.
RedridgeGnoll Ah yea I see. Well I see your point in your posts about changes to pvp system and I would agree with them if it weren't for the case where Classic project was meant as a recreation of the Vanilla experience. That does not include such changes. If it was made for the purpose of making Vanilla +, sort of an enhanced version of it, then it would be ok. But that's not the case. I am glad we will be having this version instead of Vanilla + but at the same time I have to admit that I would like to experience pvp ranking without the neccessity of playing 12 hours a day.