Stfuppercut, the conversations are always worth having, although sometimes your tone comes across quite defensive, and you tend to shut down peoples own opinions or experiences (because they are personal opinions) which you have asked them to share. That is the problem with a text based media though, things can be misunderstood or misconstrued.
As I said before, tokens may be required as a 'necessary evil' eventually - but I think it may go down badly, even if it is the right solution to an ongoing problem.
@Stfuppercut, the conversations are always worth having, although sometimes your tone comes across quite defensive, and you tend to shut down peoples own opinions or experiences (because they are personal opinions) which you have asked them to share. That is the problem with a text based media though, things can be misunderstood or misconstrued.
As I said before, tokens may be required as a 'necessary evil' eventually - but I think it may go down badly, even if it is the right solution to an ongoing problem.
It would be easy to drop a safe post without making myself vulnerable. I think to highlight a talking point and outline my opinion and then have a debate/discussion. Conversations like these allow me to challenge my own opinions and challenge the opinions of others! You and I have had several of these back and forths... You've said you enjoyed them and I've even had the pleasure of winning you over on layering. I chalk that up to a positive outcome. An outcome that isn't possible with a wishy-washy stance in a neutral tone that attempts to appease the needs/feelings of everyone... Sometimes we go days without a solid post to draw some attention, so there is nothing wrong with choosing a provocative topic and hearing eachother out. I for one feel that the token should be used, and I'm okay with outlining my stance and hearing people out. I will also challenge any other opinions that get posted because that creates good debate and is interesting to read.
The token is the nuclear answer to a global threat (botting/gold selling). You don't start the war with the nuke, but you keep it in your arsenal and acknowledge that using it is inevitable. Now THAT is a provocative statement!
:mrgreen: Would prefer buying gold from the chinese (venezuelan now?) just like old times.. #NoChanges
The token is the nuclear answer to a global threat (botting/gold selling). You don't start the war with the nuke, but you keep it in your arsenal and acknowledge that using it is inevitable. Now THAT is a provocative statement!
When I was a broke kid I would have killed to have an in game way to earn more game time, that in and of itself makes me feel ok with tokens as a concept. I don't see anyone getting hurt in this transaction, I would have gladly given someone in game gold for game time back in the day and I'd do it now too.
I guess I don't feel like tokens are pay to win in as much as you can't really pay to "win" world of warcraft. It would be the equivalent of playing Pokemon and paying real money to get a bunch of rare candies, you missed out on the whole game! What are you going to do now, just chill and do battlegrounds with whatever gear you can buy on the auction house?
The token is the nuclear answer to a global threat (botting/gold selling). You don't start the war with the nuke, but you keep it in your arsenal and acknowledge that using it is inevitable. Now THAT is a provocative statement!
When I was a broke kid I would have killed to have an in game way to earn more game time, that in and of itself makes me feel ok with tokens as a concept. I don't see anyone getting hurt in this transaction, I would have gladly given someone in game gold for game time back in the day and I'd do it now too.
I guess I don't feel like tokens are pay to win in as much as you can't really pay to "win" world of warcraft. It would be the equivalent of playing Pokemon and paying real money to get a bunch of rare candies, you missed out on the whole game! What are you going to do now, just chill and do battlegrounds with whatever gear you can buy on the auction house?
It would mean I could easily buy everything I wanted for my character on day 1 of reaching 60, making getting pre raid a lot easier.. I would not mind a token too much considering I used it in Retail to get things I wanted (black market auction thingy), but it would probably kill of some of the fun of gearing.
It would mean I could easily buy everything I wanted for my character on day 1 of reaching 60, making getting pre raid a lot easier.. I would not mind a token too much considering I used it in Retail to get things I wanted (black market auction thingy), but it would probably kill of some of the fun of gearing.
The token doesnt change that though. You will be able to buy gold from gold sellers within a week of your server launching. They will begin to stockpile and once they have excess gold they will start to spam... and spam... and spam... and spam. You will either be able to buy gold or buy the token. Without one, the other will exist.
Even if wow token is good or bad, they wont be in classic.
The classic devs has made that clear.
However you may use the very function of wow token from retail too add game time too classic.
And certainly compared too private server, Blizzard does have a modern system that could detect any third-party / Bots.
You will most likely not see a lot of them.
Personaly: I do not want too see it in Classic, it will cluster up the very server economy. #Nope
It would mean I could easily buy everything I wanted for my character on day 1 of reaching 60, making getting pre raid a lot easier.. I would not mind a token too much considering I used it in Retail to get things I wanted (black market auction thingy), but it would probably kill of some of the fun of gearing.
The token doesnt change that though. You will be able to buy gold from gold sellers within a week of your server launching. They will begin to stockpile and once they have excess gold they will start to spam... and spam... and spam... and spam. You will either be able to buy gold or buy the token. Without one, the other will exist.
Except buying gold from gold sellers could get me banned, while tokens I would have no problem buying as many as I wanted
The token is just a leftover from the retail client. The token system wasn't in original vanilla and won't be in classic.
The token is just a leftover from the retail client. The token system wasn't in original vanilla and won't be in classic.
Maybe. Battlenet wasn't in vanilla and it will be in Classic. Layering wasn't in vanilla and it will be in Classic. Numerous upgrades due to the modern infrastructure will be in Classic, they weren't in vanilla. Progressive itemization was a part of Vanilla, it wont be in Classic (thank god, I HATED progressive itemization on private). Right click reporting wasn't in vanilla... The list goes on and on. This isn't a 1-1 replication so your argument isn't compelling given the list of confirmed changes that we already have.
Except buying gold from gold sellers could get me banned, while tokens I would have no problem buying as many as I wanted
Repercussions are definitely a deterrent.
Except buying gold from gold sellers could get me banned, while tokens I would have no problem buying as many as I wanted
Repercussions are definitely a deterrent.
Yes, losing an account is never fun and one would have to weight that in when choosing to buy gold from gold sellers
Here's a different facet of the tokens that I haven't seen discussed much in this thread-
To Blizz, a token is worth 14.99 or w/e exactly 30 days game time is. To the person buying the token, it will only be worth whatever token-redeemers are willing to pay in gold, right? Does Blizz interfere with the price of tokens, like setting a floor or something? Is the price the same across all servers? I just wonder if there is a scenario where tokens are either a) too expensive gold-wise for anyone to bother spending their hard-earned Classic gold on them, or b) so inexpensive gold-wise that buying them with cash is significantly less gold than an equal dollar amount to a gold farmer. Or some sort of really weird scenario, like a server where token gold-prices have crashed and everyone is playing for free (doubtful I know).
Maybe these questions have answers that are easily seen by someone with a better understanding of economics or the token system in general, and maybe that person is in this thread? :lol:
Here's a different facet of the tokens that I haven't seen discussed much in this thread-
To Blizz, a token is worth 14.99 or w/e exactly 30 days game time is. To the person buying the token, it will only be worth whatever token-redeemers are willing to pay in gold, right? Does Blizz interfere with the price of tokens, like setting a floor or something? Is the price the same across all servers? I just wonder if there is a scenario where tokens are either a) too expensive gold-wise for anyone to bother spending their hard-earned Classic gold on them, or b) so inexpensive gold-wise that buying them with cash is significantly less gold than an equal dollar amount to a gold farmer. Or some sort of really weird scenario, like a server where token gold-prices have crashed and everyone is playing for free (doubtful I know).
Maybe these questions have answers that are easily seen by someone with a better understanding of economics or the token system in general, and maybe that person is in this thread? :lol:
The market determines the value of the token. Blizz wont interfere with the price of tokens as it doesn't matter to them. The token could be worth 10g or 1000g, Blizz makes the same money for the sub fee. The token will trend upwards or downwards depending on supply and demand. As less tokens are listed (depending on the buy rate) the price will fluctuate upwards and vice versa. I suppose in this regard, Blizzard controls that algorithm that determines the fluctuation of price, so they do control the shift in price to an extent?
Even if wow token is good or bad, they wont be in classic.
The classic devs has made that clear.
Theyve left this open for some speculation. They have eluded to no token, but they also said there would not be sharding and we received a form of sharding with layering. The token is still on the table until we have some empirical evidence to suggest otherwise. Though this thread isn't about whether it will be or wont be in Classic, rather the implications of having it in Classic.
However you may use the very function of wow token from retail too add game time too classic.
Which makes the waters murky. If anything, we have confirmation of a shared sub that can be hosted from a BFA token. We have veiled statements that elude to the token not being in the spirit of vanilla... But nothing has been confirmed. Mass-botting is also not something they want to contend with. We will have to see which issue is more pressing. The token or the bots/ gold selling.
And certainly compared too private server, Blizzard does have a modern system that could detect any third-party / Bots.
You will most likely not see a lot of them.
See the fishmonger video posted in the beginning of the thread. Bots are actively working in BFA, they are free to download and Classic will be free for users with an active sub to BFA. Potential overhead for running a bot in Classic? 0$. Barrier to entry? None. Foreseeable impact? Massive.
Personaly: I do not want too see it in Classic, it will cluster up the very server economy. #Nope
It will actually help the server economy, which is why they created it. For all the drawbacks the token presents, ruining the server economy is not one of them. The issue is that it makes the game pay to win. While I would argue that the game is pay to win regardless, as you can buy gold from a 3rd party, other users don't see it that way, which is totally fair. To your point, I don't want to see it in Classic either. I also don't want to see bots. Bots will be in Classic. They were in retail vanilla. They exist in private. They exist in BFA. They will exist in Classic. The token is the lesser of two evils.
I'll give you an example of how the token does less damage to the economy than a gold seller...
Sammy wants gold...
Sammy buys from the gold farmer who runs 15 fishing bots simultaneously destroying the server economy, destroying fishing and invalidating users who fish because they market is over-saturated. The farmer takes this black gold and sells it to other users in mass quantity while also buying key items to fluctuate the values on the server and control valuable resources. Inflation sky rockets but valuable consumes created from fish dive in price due to the overproduction of fish which shifts the meta of pvp due to consumable availability... Now pvpers are using MORE consumes, fishing is no longer worthwhile and the inflation of the server as a whole has been increased.
Sammy buys gold from Peter by trading him a token for gold. Peter fished on his own. Peter fishes EVERYDAY for hours and hours. Peter saves up his fish and positively contributes to the economy while also generating enough gold to trade Sammy for one month of game time. Sammy essentially opens trade and accepts clean gold that was generated by Peter while playing the game without cheating or disrupting the economy as a whole.
Sammy has paid to win. He would have done it either way. The token mitigated the impact of the transfer and preserved the greater economy as a whole.