Yes, it could be their epic mount but it could also be a huge upgrade for a person.
An Epic Mount is a huge upgrade for a person.
But I disagree, the roll system is for distributing usable loot such as gear or reagents, need for items you need and greed for items you're greedy for.
Nah dude, always greed BoEs unless you actually need it... and if that's the case, say something before you click.
Only need when its a real long-term upgrade & equip itit spot on. All other arguments have a quite simple solution: press GREED!!
Usually people will all roll need so no one ninjas the item, if a BOE drops and I see people start rolling greed and no one says anything I will wait until everyone has rolled greed before I roll greed, and if someone rolls need without actually needing (the item isn't for their class, etc) I'll roll need as well and if I win the item I'll reroll the item back out excluding them for trying to ninja.
If someone rolls need on a BOE and says they actually need it I want to see them equip it when they get it. A lot of people on private servers will roll need on an item that is an upgrade for them and sell it anyway.
I'd like to start by saying im not fully committed to rolling need or greeding, but you are specifically asking for "the argument FPR "need BOE for AH"", so here it is.
Gold matters. Gold matters a lot. As a leveling warrior, I may not have many of my tanking abilities, I may not have a tanking set and I may not have a mount... A BoE item presents an opportunity for me to get gold to invest in an equal piece of gear OR something even more impactful like an ability I dont have access to or my mount. A group of random strangers will never be able to objectively determine who NEEDS an item the most. Due to the fact that gold is SO important in vanilla, a valuable BoE item is worth far more than its stats for any one individual.
Ninjaing. Just because someone can use an item, doesnt mean that they will. "Oh, but that will ruin their reputation..." Will it? Im a rogue with daggers in your group. Krol Blade drops. I roll need. You ask me to equip, I say "I fully intend to, I just havent trained swords". After I have left, you will never be able to prove I havent equipped it. I can always extend the lie by saying it is in my bank the next time we meet... Etc etc etc... Blizz already said they wont be resolving loot conflicts, everyone needing is a surefire way that no BoE can be ninja'd. A lot of players will risk staining their reputation for exceptional items...
Players are incentivized to need on items that they would prefer to sell so that they have guaranteed gain. People are inherently self interested... Lets assume I am in a group of 5 people. Im a good guy, I wont ninja, but Im still worried about #1. A Krol Blade drops. I would prefer to win the roll legitimately on a greed so I can sell it, but I dont completely trust the group AND I only have a 20% chance of winning... While the Krol Blade is a minor upgrade for me, I would still be incentivized to take the 100% chance of needing and equipping the item for a small gain instead of taking a 20% chance at the gold. In this circumstance, I am motivated to roll on an item that I dont even really want due to the need over greed system.
In most cases, the value of the gold from selling a BoE will be more impactful to a players progression than equipping the BoE item itself. This is especially true for leveling characters or characters grinding dungeons with very few exceptions. This truth can even be extended into raiding. Is it numerically better to give a single rogue in the guild a Tebuu's Blazing Longsword for a minor damage increase (1/40 players gaining a stat advantage) or selling that same sword for 4-5000g and investing in consumes for the entire guild?
I'd like to start by saying im not fully committed to rolling need or greeding, but you are specifically asking for "the argument FPR "need BOE for AH"", so here it is.
Gold matters. Gold matters a lot. As a leveling warrior, I may not have many of my tanking abilities, I may not have a tanking set and I may not have a mount... A BoE item presents an opportunity for me to get gold to invest in an equal piece of gear OR something even more impactful like an ability I dont have access to or my mount. A group of random strangers will never be able to objectively determine who NEEDS an item the most. Due to the fact that gold is SO important in vanilla, a valuable BoE item is worth far more than its stats for any one individual.
Ninjaing. Just because someone can use an item, doesnt mean that they will. "Oh, but that will ruin their reputation..." Will it? Im a rogue with daggers in your group. Krol Blade drops. I roll need. You ask me to equip, I say "I fully intend to, I just havent trained swords". After I have left, you will never be able to prove I havent equipped it. I can always extend the lie by saying it is in my bank the next time we meet... Etc etc etc... Blizz already said they wont be resolving loot conflicts, everyone needing is a surefire way that no BoE can be ninja'd. A lot of players will risk staining their reputation for exceptional items...
Players are incentivized to need on items that they would prefer to sell so that they have guaranteed gain. People are inherently self interested... Lets assume I am in a group of 5 people. Im a good guy, I wont ninja, but Im still worried about #1. A Krol Blade drops. I would prefer to win the roll legitimately on a greed so I can sell it, but I dont completely trust the group AND I only have a 20% chance of winning... While the Krol Blade is a minor upgrade for me, I would still be incentivized to take the 100% chance of needing and equipping the item for a small gain instead of taking a 20% chance at the gold. In this circumstance, I am motivated to roll on an item that I dont even really want due to the need over greed system.
In most cases, the value of the gold from selling a BoE will be more impactful to a players progression than equipping the BoE item itself. This is especially true for leveling characters or characters grinding dungeons with very few exceptions. This truth can even be extended into raiding. Is it numerically better to give a single rogue in the guild a Tebuu's Blazing Longsword for a minor damage increase (1/40 players gaining a stat advantage) or selling that same sword for 4-5000g and investing in consumes for the entire guild?
Yeah this is a load of crap. You are needing for gold. Aka money. That is literally the definition of greed.
There should be a convention everything for gold - greed. Even the greed icon speaks for itself this button is for gold.
Just changed my vote to yes. My memories from Vanilla are slowly coming back to me. I still say the rules should be whatever everyone in the party agrees on, but.... The argument for everyone rolling need on all BoEs is sound. I know it might seem like going for gold is just being greedy, so that you should roll greed, but the simple fact is that everyone needs gold in Classic. This isn't going the be BFA, where gold is handed out like candy. There is your mount, spell learning costs, buying items off of the AH, etc. ad museum. You will constantly be broke if you aren't careful. It also reduces oops-I-rolled-need, and other more subtle forms of ninja looting. It is also eminently fair to everyone. Just my two cents.
There is no argument. Convo done.
all need BoE is the most fair way or else there will be all kinds of shenanigans.
for many items only suckers equip them. the Gold is more valuable and will benefit their progression more.
need is the only way to protect against ninjas.
all need BoE is the most fair way or else there will be all kinds of shenanigans.
for many items only suckers equip them. the Gold is more valuable and will benefit their progression more.
need is the only way to protect against ninjas.
I get the fact that it might cause some problems, but if we all need on BOE it will ruin the game for the folks that actually wants to equip the gear that drops.
Yes, it could be their epic mount but it could also be a huge upgrade for a person.
There you go, you answered your own question. All 5 members contributed equally to kill the mob, and all 5 members gain equal value from the item. Therefore it is unfair to claim that just one of those 5 players is arbitrarily entitled to the item.
Anyone who expects the other 4 members of the group to inexplicably shower them with loot is not going to be welcome to my (or most peoples') groups. Sadly that seems to be a lot of people in this thread.
Leave the entitlement at the door for the most enjoyable classic experience.
People voting yes; where do we draw the line then? Can everyone roll on flask recipes, leatherworking patterns, etc.?