Its all about talking it out. In the beginning of the instance it is totally acceptable to just say "Hey guys, everyone Need BoEs" and just go with that. It prevents that single ninja guy from waiting for everyone to greed and then needing.
Basically, if everyone rolls NEED on a BoE, then no one can ninja it and it's fair. While if people choose greed, they are vulnerable to some ninja choosing need just to make gold. It's not a big deal.
Not fair for the person that really needed that piece of gear which someone just needed to sell on AH.
If that person doesn't win the roll they can buy it from the person who won, or from the AH later.
The idea is that a BoE is a resource you acquire with gold and not by running an instance like the BoPs, gold is valuable for everyone in different ways, so everyone needs that BoE. Anyone could say they need an item, take it, then sell it at the AH later. Trust issues in PUGs is exactly why everyone is needing on the BoE.
I just kind of always thought of it this way:
Need for upgrade
Greed for gold
And don't say gold is an upgrade, it can be used for anything from goblin hookers to companion pets. Gold does not = upgrade.
it is well defined by that point what is need and greed....so the answer to the poll: No.
On another note: In the beginning, most people will handle it wrong, but will learn toward endgame that needing for AH will completly destroy your reputation.
In my groups (since this is a per group thing and I will be starting all my groups myself, everyone is free to have their own rules) it will be all need unless the item is low gold cost. Why? Because of all the BoEs that could have dropped but didn’t, that you could sell that BoE for and purchase on the AH that dropped for someone else. A warden’s staff? More like a piece of Edgemaster’s dropped.
Even if there is someone who could use it in the group, there is always a chance they won’t equip it, and I have seen it plenty of times where no one checked on a high value item and what do you know? Didn’t equip. (Granted, I didn’t say anything because I wanted to get through the dungeon drama free and I had been able to roll on the item regardless so I had had my chance, plus I did not start this particular group myself.)
Point is, these items are exchangeable, and in my case the group member in question likely saw their level 40 mount as more important than Mark of Kern, as would everyone else in the group except me, who already had my mount settled. Does that mean I deserved it more? According to their loot rules yes, if I had decided to push it. But if I really wanted it I could go spend the money to buy one myself. Instead, some rich person’s alt got the ring and the group member got his mount.
Dungeon specific drops such as flasks are a bit different as they drop ONLY in the instance you’re running for that purpose, but like BoEs you should have already communicated what rules you want, or reserve it if you are able.
I understand there is a lot of disappointment people may feel at having their specific item drop, and feel justified in anger that they couldn’t receive it uncontested, but in my experience not many people want to equip that high cost item even when they won it for main spec, and it creates unnecessary drama trying to force them to equip it, at least in my opinion.
Also I would hate to get involved in a in-group debate on whether the feral, the hunter, or the ret is allowed to roll on something. All need simplifies unexpected drops greatly, and leaves that mess to expected drops.
Yo Linguine long time no see! :smile:
Yo @Linguine long time no see! :smile:
That release announcement got me. :lol:
This discussion seems pretty heated, but I suspect it is because most people join groups rather than make them, and I know many people, me included, have seen pug raids and groups try to pull a fast one.
Depends on the item, and usually everyone has a quick chat before rolls.
If a nice blue Boe drops while leveling/dungeon and some one actually needs it, they have to equip it on the spot.
If it's a bis item like edgemasters/wardens/something extremely valuable, in my experience the general consensus is every one needs, that edgemasters could be sold and the gold used to buy bis upgrades for another class. Some times the guy present who can use it probably has no intention of using it for its actual purpose.
This also goes for stuff like shadowfang. I don't care, if your not a twink I'm rolling need regardless, and would fully expect every one else too. Even if I'm rogue/warrior, an item like that doesn't get wasted on leveling.
Guild/mates runs then it's different again, you usually trust every one involved and it's up to you all to chat about it and have a conversation as adults. You might even pass the edgemasters to the warrior present or sell it to the guild for a heavily discounted price. But I've heard of situations where wardens in vanilla and boe's in TBC got sold and money split among the 5 present and they where happy, even if the item was bis for that class, they would rather have the gold.
I’m in the camp that sees valuable BoE’s as interchangeable with others via trade, so I would argue for everyone to need.
Of course this should be discussed prior to starting the dungeon, and pugs are different than guild groups.
Needing on every single green/blue of lesser value for “vendorspec”, “auction house spec”, disenchanting, or what have you will get you kicked before long and put on the list of people to avoid.
I just kind of always thought of it this way:
Need for upgrade
Greed for gold
And don't say gold is an upgrade, it can be used for anything from goblin hookers to companion pets. Gold does not = upgrade.
But it can be used for an upgrade, and in the gold limited environment that Classic surely will be, it most often will be used for an upgrade. So gold does = upgrade.
Just changed my vote to yes. My memories from Vanilla are slowly coming back to me. I still say the rules should be whatever everyone in the party agrees on, but.... The argument for everyone rolling need on all BoEs is sound. I know it might seem like going for gold is just being greedy, so that you should roll greed, but the simple fact is that everyone needs gold in Classic. This isn't going the be BFA, where gold is handed out like candy. There is your mount, spell learning costs, buying items off of the AH, etc. ad museum. You will constantly be broke if you aren't careful. It also reduces oops-I-rolled-need, and other more subtle forms of ninja looting. It is also eminently fair to everyone. Just my two cents.
So your argument for rolling need instead of greed is because you're greedy? It's a known convention that you only need stuff that would be an upgrade to you. If you're interested in the item so you can sell that (meaning you're greedy for it) you press greed. If you press need because you want to sell it, you're a dick that probably took it from someone for whom this item would be an upgrade for. And gold being a scarce resource doesn't even enter this argument.
Just changed my vote to yes. My memories from Vanilla are slowly coming back to me. I still say the rules should be whatever everyone in the party agrees on, but.... The argument for everyone rolling need on all BoEs is sound. I know it might seem like going for gold is just being greedy, so that you should roll greed, but the simple fact is that everyone needs gold in Classic. This isn't going the be BFA, where gold is handed out like candy. There is your mount, spell learning costs, buying items off of the AH, etc. ad museum. You will constantly be broke if you aren't careful. It also reduces oops-I-rolled-need, and other more subtle forms of ninja looting. It is also eminently fair to everyone. Just my two cents.
So your argument for rolling need instead of greed is because you're greedy? It's a known convention that you only need stuff that would be an upgrade to you. If you're interested in the item so you can sell that (meaning you're greedy for it) you press greed. If you press need because you want to sell it, you're a dick that probably took it from someone for whom this item would be an upgrade for. And gold being a scarce resource doesn't even enter this argument.
Ok, yet again, this all depends on what the party agrees on in advance, but in parties that I lead the rule will be everyone roll need on all BoEs. You are reading way too much into button labels. Need/Greed, who cares? It's how things work that actually matter. Everyone puts in the same amount of effort, so everyone deserves an equal shot at items that are freely convertible into gold via the AH. Gold that can be spent on even more important things, like getting your first mount, or upgrading spells, or a host of other things that are much more important than equipping an item that will most likely get sharded after a few levels anyway. And the rule has important side effects, like reducing loot drama, ninja looting, etc. If you don't like the rule, don't join my party. It's literally that simple.
In a perfect world you agree on rules before you enter group content. However since that's most of the time just an ideal thought, I would say that when a valuable item drops it's a need for everyone in the group (unless you don't need it at all (be it to use it or sell it).
In a perfect world you agree on rules before you enter group content. However since that's most of the time just an ideal thought, I would say that when a valuable item drops it's a need for everyone in the group (unless you don't need it at all (be it to use it or sell it).
With how long it takes to form a group or even get to the instance entrance, there is plenty of time to discuss rules. Most active party leaders will have chat macros for it.
Just changed my vote to yes. My memories from Vanilla are slowly coming back to me. I still say the rules should be whatever everyone in the party agrees on, but.... The argument for everyone rolling need on all BoEs is sound. I know it might seem like going for gold is just being greedy, so that you should roll greed, but the simple fact is that everyone needs gold in Classic. This isn't going the be BFA, where gold is handed out like candy. There is your mount, spell learning costs, buying items off of the AH, etc. ad museum. You will constantly be broke if you aren't careful. It also reduces oops-I-rolled-need, and other more subtle forms of ninja looting. It is also eminently fair to everyone. Just my two cents.
So your argument for rolling need instead of greed is because you're greedy? It's a known convention that you only need stuff that would be an upgrade to you. If you're interested in the item so you can sell that (meaning you're greedy for it) you press greed. If you press need because you want to sell it, you're a dick that probably took it from someone for whom this item would be an upgrade for. And gold being a scarce resource doesn't even enter this argument.
Ok, yet again, this all depends on what the party agrees on in advance, but in parties that I lead the rule will be everyone roll need on all BoEs. You are reading way too much into button labels. Need/Greed, who cares? It's how things work that actually matter. Everyone puts in the same amount of effort, so everyone deserves an equal shot at items that are freely convertible into gold via the AH. Gold that can be spent on even more important things, like getting your first mount, or upgrading spells, or a host of other things that are much more important than equipping an item that will most likely get sharded after a few levels anyway. And the rule has important side effects, like reducing loot drama, ninja looting, etc. If you don't like the rule, don't join my party. It's literally that simple.
I agree that you're free to implement whatever rules you want in the parties you lead, including even MLing all items to yourself. And I agree that as long as your party is ok with that, the game/system supports that aspect of play. But that's not the default state of parties. Unless stated otherwise by the party leader, the implicit agreement is that need/greed works like the implementation so obviously states - Need if you need, press greed if you're greedy for the item, or pass if you don't care.
If you join or create a group and start needing everything without the agreement that doing that is ok, what you're engaging in is simply toxic and selfish behaviour.
But to be honest, I don't think this will be a problem as most casuals that engage in this will quit before, or soon after reaching 60. So it's pointless to argue it here.